St. Joseph better than Ansonia? "Captain, I find that highly illogical."
Full disclosure: I’m no mathematician. I never considered joining the debate team. …When it comes to math and logic, I’m more James T. Kirk than Mister Spock (right).
But here’s a concept we can all understand because we do it all the time while trying to judge our fair high school football teams, especially early in the season.
In logic, it’s called the Transitive Law. It goes something like this:
If A=B, and B=C, then A=C.
For our purposes, the formula goes like this. If A > B, and B > C, then A > C.
I’ve been doing it all week as the scores started coming in Friday and Saturday. Here’s how it works:
- Danbury defeated McMahon, 31-8 in Week 1.
- Darien defeated Danbury 31-0, 31-0 in Week 2.
- Fairfield Warde defeated Darien 14-0 in Week 1.
- Therefore, Fairfield Warde is better than Darien, Danbury and McMahon.
I’m sure few would argue with that right now.
But, of course, there are far too many variables to make this logic valid. As the high school football season plays out, we’ll begin to understand this equation is far too simple and things certainly don’t work out this way.
Without getting too technical on y’all, this is more of an example of an intransitive relation. A may be greater than B, and B may be greater than C, but that doesn’t necessarily make A greater than C.
Yet we use the Transitive Law anyway, especially us sports writers trying to rank the state’s football teams because, really, it’s all we have to go on until the rest of the games are played.
The reason I bring this up is because of last week’s barnburner at Jarvis Field.
Ansonia, which thoroughly destroyed Hillhouse in Week 1, struggled to beat Crosby in Week 2. The week before, Crosby got buried (at home) by St. Joseph, 37-0.
So here’s what’s been goin’ round and round my head as I submitted my polls for Week 3 when trying to figure out where St. Joseph fits among the top teams in the state.
- In Week 1, St. Joseph beat Crosby 37-0.
- In Week 2, Ansonia beat Crosby 16-13 on a late field goal.
- Therefore St. Joseph is better than Ansonia.
So, if St. Joseph is better than Ansonia, doesn’t that mean the Cadets should be ranked higher than the Chargers?
Right?
It’s all a part of the who-beat-who-beat-who game. Since everybody can’t play everybody, this is the next best thing.
This is just a roundabout way of asking: Week 2, what did we learn? I’m curious to hear some of your thoughts/arguments.
If you have any good Transitive Law logical examples for me, I’d love to hear them.
Live Long and Prosper.
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In Week 1, Greenwich beat Norwalk 35-14.
In Week 2, Staples beat Norwalk 42-6.
Therefore, Staples > Greenwich.
= ).
Comment by Tim — September 28th, 2009 @ 12:42 am
the nvl lovers on this blog should really come to grips with the reality of that league.
Comment by drizzle — September 28th, 2009 @ 12:49 am
Intriguing… though a tad too easy and the scores are a little too similar.
This is more like it…
Simsbury defeated Windsor 30-19 but only Newington 9-7.
Windsor defeated New Britain 33-27, but New Britain defeated Newington 41-7.
So you can go, Simsbury > Windsor > New Britain > Newington based on pure W-L (which is the point of this).
But New Britain beat Newington by 34, Simsbury only by 2… So New Britain > Simsbury?
arrgh.
Comment by Sean Patrick Bowley — September 28th, 2009 @ 1:05 am
Yea I realized it doesn’t really apply to greenwich/staples. It was just tongue-in-cheek.
Comment by Tim — September 28th, 2009 @ 1:13 am
I would agree it looks as though St Joe’s is stronger than Ansonia. I am from Seymour but understand the NVL overall is much weaker than the FCIAC and SCC. I would, however, caution thinking St. Joe’s is better than Ansonia simply because of one score. I saw the Chargers against West Haven in a scrimmage….and yes it was just a scrimmage (but tell that to both sides). Nevermind the score, Ansonia was atleast as talented as West Haven. With that said West Haven has to be one of the best 0-2 teams in the state after losing two close games to Shelton and Hamden. Again, i do agree the FCIAC is much stronger top to bottom than the NVL and i dont think this is one of Ansonia’s stronger teams this year, i just wouldnt bet against them…atleast not vs. St. Joes. Greenwich is a different story. Just one persons opinion.
Comment by Shaggydog84 — September 28th, 2009 @ 7:53 am
I’m surprised to see you using CCC teams in this example, SPB. I didn’t think you took much notice of them until playoffs rolled around… Anyway, the Windsor/New Britain game really could’ve gone either way, but clearly the Windsor coach (Fleeting – former Weaver coach, who also beat NB last year) knows how to defend New Britain. Newington is definitely down this year and Simsbury is always competitive. I’d be willing to say that New Britain is the most talented of the teams here, but Simsbury and Windsor are very well-coached. Bottom-line is that this is high school football. You just can’t predict what’s going to happen week to week. Which teams will show up and which won’t. That’s why it’s so fun to try to figure it all out and play games like these…
Comment by CCC Fan — September 28th, 2009 @ 8:29 am
Tim, a lot of toungue not much cheek.
Here is one SPB.
Wilbur Cross beat Xavier 37-19
Xavier beat ND-West Haven 29-28
Therfore, Wilbur Cross is better than NDWH
Food for thought on your elite 8 (is WC eligble?)
Comment by tj — September 28th, 2009 @ 9:10 am
Team A > Team B > Team C arguments are the most simplistic kind and completely ignore anything except the final score.
Anybody who follows high school football closely (which would be anybody reading this right now) knows how much more goes into it.
Where and when the game was played, weather, injuries, officiating, out of conference or in conference, and past history of the schools all play a huge role in determining the final score.
And besides all that, what about watching the actual game.
We all know that some games are closer than the final score indicates (Watertown over Seymour, week 2) and other times one team can dominate every aspect of a game but the final score does not indicate that (Hamden over Hand, week 1).
Comment by TRG — September 28th, 2009 @ 9:24 am
Hey Sean:
How can you not even mention Silas Redd and what Nash called the best rushing performance of his 25 years of covering football. Not even a word? Smell like home cooking.
Comment by Commissioner — September 28th, 2009 @ 11:06 am
CCC Fan: I like to diversify.
Comment by Sean Patrick Bowley — September 28th, 2009 @ 11:28 am
Commissioner: You ask a good question…
Comment by Sean Patrick Bowley — September 28th, 2009 @ 11:30 am
TJ: Yes, this is the idea… But I’m looking for a valid argument that everybody’s going to argue with, i.e. St. Joseph over Ansonia.
Comment by Sean Patrick Bowley — September 28th, 2009 @ 11:33 am
I would argue with WC being better than ND-WH. They might be. But I am not convnced after two weeks.
Comment by TRG — September 28th, 2009 @ 1:15 pm
dust off the st.joes letter jackets alumni—————while ansonia was winning championships the last ten years,st.joes was struggling with harding.st.joes hasnt been relevant since that old parochial school conference—
Comment by ray brown — September 28th, 2009 @ 1:52 pm
This seems like a diversion from the #3 and #7 teams on a certain somebodies Elite 8 losing! Just kidding
Comment by MasukRules — September 28th, 2009 @ 4:00 pm
SPB–Ansonia can’t catch a break! They finally have the chance to schedule a good team and it just so happens that Hillhouse is down-way down. Now they play the rest of their games against poor teams top to bottom in the Nvl. St. Joes plays both New Canaan and Greenwich so we shall see how good they are.
Cheshire will have loads of trouble running the table against a great schedule-plus their center rolled at least 12 balls to the quarterback in the shotgun position and they didn’t fumble a one. If they don’t correct this they will lose a couple of times.
Week two had several shockers thats why H.S. football is the best. The winner of Staples-Ridgefield goes straight to the state and Fciac finals because they play garbage the rest of the way-not counting Wilbur Cross vs. Ridgefield. The New Canaan-Greenwich loser will be on the outside looking in as far as the Fciac is concerned. If Greenwich losees to New Canaan they most likely will miss the states as well. Is New CAnaan good or are they going on last years reputation.
Has the
Comment by jjs — September 28th, 2009 @ 5:30 pm
I predict Fairfield Warde will start the season 3-0.
Comment by MasukRules — September 29th, 2009 @ 10:12 am