I wasn’t going to do this, but seeing as I will be going to Ken Strong Stadium today, might as well give everybody updates on the progress of Xavier in their game against West Haven. (We may have some Bethel-Stratford updates as well).
As you all may know, Xavier is right now third in the Class LL playoff race, which is suddenly down to five with Hamden’s loss yesterday.
If the top four teams, Glastonbury, Staples, Xavier and Cheshire win out, Central and Ridgefield are cooked.
If Staples, Xavier or Cheshire lose one of their final games, Central can get in with a win over Harding.
If two of those teams lose, then Ridgefield can join them by beating Danbury.
Two-loss teams like Greenwich and Hamden would need most, if not all, of the 1-loss schools to lose a second game to have any kind of shot… and that’s not happening.
So keep us on in the background while you’re watching the Jets today. We’ll keep you posted.
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west havens best three loss team in state———now they are best 4 loss team in state—–cromwell returned almost whole team from last years state champs—dont know what happened-maybe theyre still stunned they beat ansonia
Comment by ray brown — November 15th, 2009 @ 4:39 pm
How many of this years undefeated teams would be undefeated against West Haven’s schedule ?
Please name:………..
PS I am Not a West Haven Fan……
Comment by cuoz18 — November 15th, 2009 @ 11:13 pm
West Haven should win some of those games and then they would get respect.
Comment by MasukRules — November 16th, 2009 @ 9:06 am
West Haven would have the same horrible record in the FCIAC.
Comment by Jack Cochran Wannabe — November 16th, 2009 @ 9:17 am
Cuoz 18 – all of them. How bout that?
Comment by FF County Fan — November 16th, 2009 @ 9:53 am
CUOZ— The answer is NONE
Comment by jjs — November 16th, 2009 @ 10:15 am
cuoz———-yes you are but nonetheless i forgot which division they are in ,is it 1-2 the hammonasett, the quinnipiac,the mohegan sun?seriously, your one of the few guys on this blog that knows his stuff so you bring up a valid question-didnt you blog earlier that ansonia beat a bad hillhouse team?how do they have 5 wins in the scc?
Comment by ray brown — November 16th, 2009 @ 11:34 am
dave k cant wait till derby puts another beating on the shelton girls,i mean gaels
Comment by ray brown — November 16th, 2009 @ 11:36 am
Hey Ray
Here is your answer how Hillhouse has won 5 games .By defeating all division 2 SCC teams,all of which I have not seen ranked even it others ,others receiving votes.
Lyman Hall
Fairfield Prep
Jonathan Law
Guilford
Sheehan
Which one would you consider a signature win ??
Comment by Cuoz18 — November 16th, 2009 @ 1:16 pm
Cuoz 18 – all of them. How bout that?
Comment by FF County Fan — November 16th, 2009 @ 9:53 am
Good answer but very wrong.Try using one of your 3 life lines.
Comment by Cuoz18 — November 16th, 2009 @ 1:20 pm
ray, i will give 35pts and take the gaels. How did derby ever win 4 games in the NVL.
Comment by mon78 — November 16th, 2009 @ 1:54 pm
to mon78: Derby only has 3 wins as of Monday afternoon. If they beat Crosby tonight, that would be their fourth win.
on the Ray and Cuoz debate:
Cuoz is correct when he says that West Haven has a difficult schedule. But Ray is right when he correctly points out that Hillhouse is 5-4 in the SCC this year when everybody assumed they were way down.
And this is why the SCC is so diffuclut to discuss, because they have the Div I and Div II setup.
When people make statements like “The SCC is best league in the state”, the vast majority of these people are really only talking about Div I. You cannot simply ignore the entire other half of a conference when discussing it.
Hillhouse is in the SCC. Hillhouse is 5-4. Those are both facts. If they achieved that record because the SCC has decided that some teams should play primarily state powers and others get easier roads, then that is on the SCC. Why dump on Hillhouse and try to downplay their 5 wins? They didn’t create their own schedule. They played whop they were told to play. Funny, when Hillhouse won a state title, the SCC sure claimed them as part of the family then.
The SCC themselves have created this situation, but everybody else is supposed to feel bad for the member teams all the time. If the West Haven schedule is too tough, then that is the SCC’s own fault.
And the worst part, certain people including SPB want to make the West Haven schedule even harder! Take away the crossover games right? I could not believe I was reading that. How in the world would that make things any better?
Amity is 2-6. Branford is 6-3. Does this accurately represent the strength of these teams? I honestly don’t know. And that is the point. The SCC setup clouds things to the point that nothing is ever settled and gives teams ready made excuses when they have a bad year.
Comment by Tim Mac — November 16th, 2009 @ 4:51 pm
Ray,
Hillhouse would be 9-1 in the NVL.
Comment by Dave k — November 16th, 2009 @ 6:32 pm
Ray
Are you going to the powder puff game between Derby and Shelton? I think it is Wed night at Shelton.
Comment by Dave k — November 16th, 2009 @ 6:34 pm
My grandmother could win 4 games in the NVL
Comment by Ole#65 — November 16th, 2009 @ 7:20 pm
i know and derby will win 5 games innvl—-the scc espeaciallyd-2 stinks—-dave i thought the powder puff game was on thanksgiving
Comment by ray brown — November 16th, 2009 @ 8:01 pm
ole 65 ——as big as she was she should win 4 games in the ivy league
Comment by ray brown — November 16th, 2009 @ 8:02 pm
NOt one undefeated team in the state would survive West Havens schedule.
Couze 18 is right on in his assessment.
Comment by butch — November 16th, 2009 @ 8:15 pm
The SCC does not “cloud” its schedule.The Division 1 teams play,for the most part,the stronger teams in the league while the Division 2 teams play programs mostly on par with themselves which are generally not on the high level of division 1 teams.Hillhouse in 2008 defeated their Division 2 opponents in a Handily fashion and also won against Division 1 Shelton.2009 Hillhouse has not handled its Division 2 opponents in a dominant fashion and was destroyed by Division 1 Shelton.So its easy to see that in 2009 who the best teams are in the SCC. I will make a bold statement and say the SCC does it scheduling correctly and has the most competitive match ups of all leagues most weeks.Does the SCC scheduling hurt the chances of its teams from playing postseason,absolutely.No Pomperaug/Masuk regular season game or Staples/ New Canaan .Come on these teams are good every year there is no reason not to play every year unless you want to kneel down for the entire 4th quarter or put the JV’S in early second half.
Comment by cuoz18 — November 16th, 2009 @ 10:21 pm
Excellent points cuoz18, like i said Ray how does Derby win 4 games in the NVL. Derby beats Naugy and then Naugy goes and beats your best team holy cross what does that mean. your sure you dont want derby +35.
Comment by mon78 — November 16th, 2009 @ 11:15 pm
Saying that one conference is better than another is just a poor way of framing an argument, since the word “better” means different things to different people.
However, when people tout the virtues of the SCC, I think that they are trying to say is that the SCC Div I / Div II format clearly provides the most competitive and challenging schedule for its teams.
Everyone would agree that the Greenwich-New Canaan game an epic battle, no?
Off the top of my head… SCC top thrillers this year
- Xavier beats ND-WH on a last minute TD & 2 point conversion
- Xavier takes Hamden to OT and wins it
- ND-WH scores with 13 secs left to top Cheshire
All 3 of those games where every bit as good as the Greenwich-NC game,
and, the best part is that these were not only 3 great games,
they were part of great rivalries that are played EVERY year.
Did it ever occur to the FCIAC that it could have memorable, epic games like that… if they would only schedule them?
The Big 3 – Staples, GHS, NC – just might be the best 3 programs in the state – so why don’t they challenge themselves and play each other EVERY year?!
Please stop using excuses
- the league won’t let us (if the Big 3 coaches wanted it, the league would schedule it)
- the conference is big and that you need to rotate opponents (most of those games are simply not competitive)
- New Canaan is only MM and can’t play up (please see Daniel Hand).
Pick 2 teams in the FCIAC that you would like to see play. The sad part is that trying to predict when that meeting might occur
is like tracking near-earth comet events… bust out your supercomputer b/c they only come around every few years.
(Someone the other week posted a long list of “FCIAC games that I would have liked to have seen” – props.)
This year we have exciting teams from Bridgeport Central, St Joe’s, and {cough cough} Ridgefield. Um, Trumbull, sure, and I dunno, Darien.
Why not let them all play each other in an FCIAC Div I set-up?
That will give the fans superb match-ups, create some huge gate revenue, and raise the profile of the FCIAC and CT football in general.
If all of these teams played each other, it would also solve other bones of contention here on the board, e.g.
- Ridgefield’s playoff chances would have faded a long time ago
- Central might be in a much more favorable position to qualify.
The SCC Div I / Div II format is simple, understandable, and produces by far the most competitive slate.
(It might even be better if you made it like the European soccer leagues and bounce teams up and down if they prove or disprove their merit.)
It’s about time that the other leagues in the state follow that example, and stop letting their
tops teams duck one another in the regular season!
SWC – this includes you too since I’m still waiting for your 1st and only epic match-up of the year.
CCC – you seem to have fallen victim to the bigger is better myth; you have some excellent programs up there
but there is no apparent rhyme nor reason to your division alignment or scheduling. What are you trying to do?
ECC – doing a very good job out there, divisions align by skill not solely on size, scheduling seems fair
NVL – not sure where you fit into this argument but at least you allowed non-conference games this year
Finally, one extremely important point: this argument is further proof that we desperately need CIAC playoff reform.
Take the example of GHS: this year they scheduled both NC and Staples in the same season – that is a rarity.
They came up short vs. NC, happened to drop a close one vs Central, and now find themselves
eliminated from the post-season. A more typical year: GHS wouldn’t play NC and with 1 loss would be playing Staples
on TG for a LL berth on the line. The current system does not reward teams for challenging themselves with quality opponents,
and too many conferences are happy to oblige with all-too-rare quality match-ups.
Comment by FauxRealism — November 17th, 2009 @ 1:34 am
Faux, well stated, probably the most comprehensive and relative blog all season. Please keep writing in.
Comment by John d — November 17th, 2009 @ 9:16 am
The strength of schedule conversation is getting out of control. All people do is use is to justify records. Teams with bad records get defended by saying they play a hard schedule. Teams with good records get knocked because people say they play an easy schedule.
West Haven is 4-4, but they play a tough schedule. Staples is undefeated, so everybody knocks the schedule.
I agree with Tim Mac, if the West Haven schedule is too hard, then blame the SCC. It is their fault. They think it’s a good idea to load up their premier programs with tough games, then that is what you get.
We all know how the playoff system works. Don’t make up un-even schedules and then complain when your member teams can’t make the playoffs.
Comment by Mikey — November 17th, 2009 @ 9:35 am
Maybe a change in the playoff format has a positive domino effect and solves several problems on this board…
Perhaps:
Fewer “state” divisions eliminates what some people see as “watered down” titles, thus increasing their perceived importance (vs. league titles).
Expanded fields within the divisions allows room for more 1 or 2 loss teams, thus adding incentives to leagues to provide more marquis match-ups during the season.
Also…the view of aligning divisions within conferences to provide better matchups is a very football-centric view. Aren’t most of the divisions held the same throughout all sports? What provides better football matchups may have the opposite effect on basketball/baseball/soccer.
Comment by Dr. Von Nostran — November 17th, 2009 @ 11:10 am
FauxRealism, couldn’t say it better myself. That should be copied and pasted and sent to all the leagues in the state. If they are going to fix the playoff system they might as well fix the point system too.
Comment by mon78 — November 17th, 2009 @ 12:26 pm
I’m sorry, I must be on the wrong board. This must be the “Excuses, Hypothetical Situations and Whiners’ Board”.
Comment by Back Judge — November 17th, 2009 @ 1:27 pm
Sorry Back Judge this is”The Truth Hurts Board”.
Comment by Cuoz18 — November 17th, 2009 @ 2:24 pm
More like the “Cry Like a Baby and It Means Nothing Board”. Waaaah!
Comment by Back Judge — November 17th, 2009 @ 8:41 pm
It seems like if your team isn’t in playoff contention this time of year you have to bring up scrimmages, the strength of your conference, and changing the format of the playoff system. It’s the same thing every year.
Comment by MasukRules — November 17th, 2009 @ 9:32 pm
MasukRules – no one mentioned any of those things in this thread. Instead it’s about how we would really appreciate it if your league and team would not make us wait until Nov 19 to play a meaningful game. Or wait, did the scare you had from big, bad Bethel count?
If we are going to talk about the things we can count on in the Fall, how about this one: Masuk steamrolls its pitifully weak league, qualifies for the states, and then fails to win a state championship. (Ok, you did win one, anyone can get lucky.)
I hope you are enjoying that girls field hockey title, ‘cuz in football you won’t beat Pomperaug or any team in Class L.
Comment by Ziggy StarDust — November 17th, 2009 @ 11:50 pm
well said ziggy stardust
Comment by mon78 — November 18th, 2009 @ 7:28 am
just last year: Masuk and brookfield win it all. Newtown makes the playoffs and gives eventual #1 gbury a good game. Bunnell is left out of the playoffs by losing only to two state champions. sorry ziggy but I think this league is great but in the midst of a transition year just like so many others. although it is nice to see teams like bethel step up! by the way google pomperaug field hockey.
Comment by fodder — November 18th, 2009 @ 8:07 am
Bravo Ziggy
Comment by And the Spiders — November 18th, 2009 @ 11:36 am
I don’t quite understand the attacks/criticisms here: Who is making excuses or whining? The “best 3 loss team” stuff is just fun internet conjecture… no one ever said that multiple loss teams deserve playoff spots. Unfortunately, we have a different kind of conjecture to do for the SWC and FCIAC… we have to dream about what would happen if the leagues would schedule more competitive games!
Let’s take one concrete example in the FCIAC. Fairfield-Ludlowe (Class MM) had to play Central, Ridgefield, New Canaan, and Staples (3 LL schools plus one recognized state power). Trinity Catholic – by far the smallest school in the FCIAC and small even compared to many of its Class S brethren – had to play Staples and New Canaan. If you instead scheduled Staples-New Canaan and let Ludlowe play Trinity, I think everyone in the state is better off. We get a marquee match-up with epic game potential, and Trinity and Ludlowe get to participate in a winnable game vs. a comparable opponent instead of getting pummeled by a powerhouse. If Ludlowe could win one more game they might be in the thick of the MM playoff race – how great would that be for the school and town?
Who could possibly not support that schedule change? The only answer I can come up with is that Staples and NC do not want it b/c one of them would be stuck with a loss, which would clearly hurt their CIAC playoff chances under the current rules.
The SCC, with its Division alignment, is the only conference where its 10 top teams all agree to play each other every year. (Ok, technically they play 8 of the other 9 Div I teams and skip one opponent each year). That one sentence sums up why the SCC is perceived as the “best conference” in the state.
I keep reading “You can’t ignore the other half of the SCC!” If you are in Div II, no shame in that, you get a schedule of similar programs + 2 cracks at the big boys. That’s fair, competitive, and fun. We tend not to talk about Div II only b/c most of us come here to discuss elite teams, and that isn’t where they are likely to be found.
The SCC Division I/II format may not be perfect, but given the recent trend towards mega-conferences with semi-random rotating schedules, it’s the best solution so far. FCIAC, SWC, CCC commissioners – get to work to see how that format could be adapted for you!
All – Thanks for the positive feedback. Dr. Van Nostran – excellent point in #24. Since the CIAC is in the business of promoting sportsmanship and competition, I think this is pretty reasonable idea. If the football alignments don’t make sense for other sports, then leave them be. I can’t see that it would add all that much to the administrative burden.
This thread will probably die soon but I will keep fighting the good fight!
Comment by FauxRealism — November 19th, 2009 @ 3:08 pm
Why is there so much Masuk-bashing?
Comment by MasukRules — November 19th, 2009 @ 4:39 pm
Because their fans (cough, cough, you) are obnoxious and make post such as ” MASUK SHOULD BE NUMBER ONE!!!!!!111111!!!
Comment by tpl — November 19th, 2009 @ 8:14 pm
mon——–bring lyman hall,east haven,sheehan,law,north haven into the nvl and they would be 3-7 too….davek you were a big derby blogger last year guaranteeing 7 wins in a good nvl year-they were 4-6 in a down nvl season—maybe 5-6 when they beat the shelton gaggers.
Comment by ray brown — November 19th, 2009 @ 10:02 pm
Truth be told…. MasukRules has toned it down since the beginning of the season!
Comment by THS Fan — November 19th, 2009 @ 10:24 pm