Very little change in the State’s Media Poll. Masuk picked up one first-place vote, inching to within four points of No. 1 Xavier. No other rankings changed hands except the No. 10 spot once held down by North Haven is now occupied by Darien.
Few changes with the Day Coaches or the CSWA Polls, too. The rogue 1st-place vote from last week’s Day poll has leaped back to Xavier, giving the Falcons the edge again in first-place votes. Also, Conard makes an appearance at No. 10. A lone first-place vote switched to Masuk in the CSWA poll. Darien makes a No. 10 appearance there.
Your post Week 6 polls:
NHR Media Poll
Others receiving votes: Conard (6-0), 228; West Haven (5-1), 160; Norwich Free Academy (5-0), 151; Greenwich (5-1), 142; Notre Dame-West Haven (4-2), 110; Cromwell (6-0), 106; Pomperaug (5-1), 72; Valley Regional/Old Lyme (5-0), 60; Norwalk (5-1), 49; North Haven (5-1), 38; Northwest Catholic (5-1), 28; Ledyard (4-1), 8; Berlin (5-1), Farmington (6-0) and Hall (5-1), 7.
The following voted: Marc Allard, Norwich Bulletin; Bob Barton, New Haven Register; Sean Patrick Bowley, Connecticut Post; Don Boyle, Sporting News CT; Jim Bransfield, Middletown Press; Bryant Carpenter, Meriden-Record Journal; George DeMaio, WELI; Mike DiMauro, The Day of New London; Matt Doran, MSG Varsity; Kevin Duffy, Danbury News-Times; Tom Evans, Norwalk Hour; Noah Finz, WTNH-8; Ned Griffen, The Day of New London; John Holt, WFSB-3; Mark Jaffee, Waterbury Republican-American; Ken Lipshez, Patch/West Hartford News; Mike Madera, Elm City Newspapers; Joe Morelli, New Haven Register; Dave Phillips, Shore Line Newspapers; Mike Pucci, New Haven Register; Dave Ruden, Stamford Advocate; Mike Suppe, Hersam-Acorn; Tom Yantz, Hartford Courant; Mike Wollschlager, New Haven Register; Jimmy Zanor, Shore Line Newspapers.
The Day Coaches Poll
Also receiving votes: Darien (6-0), 136 points; Notre Dame-West Haven (4-2), 88; Norwich Free Academy (5-0), 84; West Haven (5-1), 56; Greenwich (5-1), 52; Cromwell (6-0), 47; Northwest Catholic-West Hartford (5-1), 38; North Haven (5-1), 36; Glastonbury (5-1), 26; Valley Regional/Old Lyme (6-0), 23; Holy Cross-Waterbury (5-1), 14; Tie, Hall-West Hartford (5-1) and Pomperaug-Southbury (5-1), 8; Cheshire (3-3), 7.
The following coaches voted: Tom Brockett, Ansonia; Jim Buonocore, Ledyard; Craig Bruno, Bunnell-Stratford; Dave Cadelina, Bridgeport Central; Steve Filippone, Hand-Madison; Rob Fleeting, Windsor; Tanner Grove, Montville; Jude Kelly, St. Paul-Bristol; Tim King, Valley Regional-Deep River; Sean Marinan, Xavier-Middletown; John Murphy, Masuk-Monroe; Marce Petroccio, Staples-Westport; Bob Zito, Maloney-Meriden.
CSWA Media Poll
Also Receiving Votes: Conard 6-0 143; West Haven 5-1 73; Norwich Free Academy 5-0 54; Greenwich 5-1 41; Notre Dame-West Haven 4-2 39; Valley Regional/Old Lyme 5-0 34; Northwest Catholic 5-1 20; Cromwell 6-0 17; North Haven 5-1 17; Pomperaug 5-1 13; Farmington 6-0 12; Newtown 5-1 5; Berlin 5-1 4; Fairfield Prep 4-2 4; Norwalk 5-1 4; Coventry/Windham Tech 5-0 2; Hall 5-1 2; Ledyard 4-1 2; Ellington/Somers 6-0 1; Holy Cross 5-1 1
Voters: Brian Barreto (NVL Blog), Bob Barton (CT H.S. Football Record Book), Don Boyle (Sporting News CT), Jim Bransfield (Middletown Press), Kyle Brennan (Waterbury Republican-American), George DeMaio (WELI Radio), Gerry deSimas (Collinsville Publishing Co.), Bill Donovan (WXLM 980 AM), Mark Fijalkowski (CT Sports Network), Ted Glanzer (The Granbys Patch), Dave Greenleaf (Bristol Press), Mike Guerrera (Southington Citizen), John Holt (WFSB Channel 3), Larry Kelley (SE Conn Patch), Bob Lazzari (Valley Times), Greg Lederer (Cheshire Herald), Ken Lipshez (Farmington/W. Hartford Patch), Robert Mayer (Berlin Patch), Eric Montgomery (Minuteman Newspapers), Sean Patrick Bowley (Connecticut Post), Dave Phillips (Shoreline Newspapers), Mike Pucci (New Haven Register), Paul Rosano (Meriden Record-Journal), Dave Ruden (Stamford Advocate), Mike Suppe (Hersam Acorn Newspapers), Peter Vander Veer (Hersam Acorn Newspapers), Tom Yantz (Hartford Courant), Rich Zalusky (Willimantic Chronicle), Jimmy Zanor (Shore Line Times)
Dearest Sean Patrick Aloysius Bowley,
Please place The Day coaches poll on a green background
Green is cooler than blue
Please also put the CSWA on a pink background
Thank you. Please drive thru
- Ned
http://www.theday.com/article/20111024/INTERACT010114/111029550
@Ned
Get yer own blog! …oh, i see you have. So then go nuts on your own color coding. I happen to like blue. Beat it.
Based on the polls, it’s pretty clear that the SCC is whelming all other conferences:
.) SCC two teams in top 10.
.) The so weak it shouldn’t be mentioned in the breath as the SCC, SWC…2 in the top 10.
.) The down in the dumps FCIAC, another conference that dare not be mentioned in the same breath as the mighty, vaunted, SEC-like SCC, has, what? 3 in the top 10?
My oh, my…the world’s turned upside down!
Maybe because unlike the SCC,the FCIAC “Higher Ups” do not routinely play other “Higher Ups”.I am 100% positive 1 FCIAC team falls from the top ten when Darien travels to play Staples.
Given that the SCC’s two best teams (and really, the only teams that are worth talking about in the state title conversation) don’t even play each other, this is NOT the year to get high-and-mighty about SCC Division 1 scheduling.
Not a big difference between the schedules NC/Darien and Hand play – if at all. Ditto Staples and Xavier.
Masuk’s got more cupcakes, but will likely end up with just as many heavyweight scalps (Pomp, Newtown and probably Bunnell) to their name.
@ James
No other league even comes close to relinquishing more playoff spots due to competitive scheduling than the SCC.SCC teams in mostly all conferences would have 2 plus teams qualify on a yearly basis.It’s a tough pill to swallow if you are a fan of other leagues but it’s the truth.There is not a league in the state that I do not see outside of the Tech league.I try to watch premier games on a weekly basis.Try finding many in the NVL or FCIAC,ECC,PEQUOT,CCC.
@Big Fish – Say what? The top teams in the FCIAC each year are NC, Staples, and Greenwich. Each Thanksgiving NC plays Darien (defending FCIAC champion), and Staples takes on Greenwich. That’s every year. The schedule is rotated every couple of years. If not for having to play Staples the past two years, Ridgefield would likely have made the playoffs. St. Joes beat NC last year en route to a state championship against Ansonia. Trumbull beat Staples and made it to the LL finals. McMahon took NC and Staples down to the wire this year. Norwalk is on pace to make the playoffs. Wilton took Darien into double OT. Warde beat McMahon and gave Darien a run for the money. How much more competitive can you get?
How many teams in the SCC would make the postseason against schedules like Staples/Darien/New Cannan/Greenwich ?
None of these teams has more than 2 quality opponents.There is at least 4-7 teams in the SCC that would lose 2 or fewer games against those schedules.
McMahon is the best team NC has played this year, bar none. They’re well-coached, athletic and have the senior leadership to make noise (the only thing they lack is depth). They would be competitive in any league, and make the playoffs from most.
McMahon is 3-3.
How’s this schedule for you? Staples (#5 in the Elite 8), New Canaan (#3), Ridgefield (#8 last week), Greenwich (#7) and Norwalk (#8). For arguments’ sake, we’ll leave out Warde and Wilton. That’s most of the area’s elite teams.
I’m not AJ Albano, but I bet that he swaps that schedule for Hand’s in a heartbeat (ND-West Haven’s, on the other hand…)
As to your larger point – yes, I do think it’s tougher to qualify for the state playoffs from SCC Division 1. On average, the schedules are more difficult, the seasons more grueling. In any given year, one of the FCIAC’s heavies will play an absolute laugher of a schedule (Darien last year), and that’s not fair – and the Division 1/Division 2 format protects against that. But in 2011, the SCC’s big dogs aren’t butting heads. So in the context of THIS season, the here and now, all of this SCC woofing isn’t doing much for me.
SCC vs FCIAC, 2010: 1 – 1.
W: Xavier, New Canaan
L: Trumbull, Hand
You can’t tell much of anything about this.
Both conferences are good at the top end and there’s little point in bashing one to promote the other. We’ll know next month which of this year’s models is stronger.
In any event, they’re structured differently.
@ Honus
The fciac schedule could get a lot more competitive.
Take ND-WH, West Haven, Cheshire. They all play both Xavier and Hand AND each other. Those might be the 5 best teams in the SCC, and we miss only one matchup (don’t get X vs. Hand, although we will next 2 years).
In the Fciac we have Greenwich, NC, Staples, Darien. You can pick the 5th best team… Ridge field, Trumbull, maybe Bport Central the last couple years. Norwalk or McMahon. Whoever you want. Go ahead count the number of match ups we see and don’t see. (this year Trumbull gets screwed had has to play all of the big 4)
@ Big Fish – SCC D1 West: Let me start out by saying what everyone else in the SCC is thinking: the more successful Xavier gets, the more football kids they’ll attract, and the more impossible they will be to stop. Shelton’s program has gone downhill of late, Hamden’s has sunk to nothing, Amity is perenially a doormat, and Fairfield Prep alhough improving has a long way to go. Competitive Grade: D. Ain’t no one going to challenge Xavier for years to come.
SCC D1 East: Hand is one of those overachieving loveable teams that finds ways to win against the bigger schools. Cheshire has a storied history of winning while Notre Dame has been having success of late. I’m not a big West Haven fan because of their defense, but their offense is always among the best. Wilbur Cross is the unfortunate odd team out. Grade: A (A+ when Cross is strong).
Remainder: Figure one maybe two of the remaining nine teams have any shot at beating the aforementioned top teams. The rest are easy “W”s. No reason to grade these teams.
Your turn to rate the FCIAC.
@Weasel. Voters look for undefeated teams to put in the Top 10. As has been pointed out, there will be one less FCIAC team in the Top 10 next week. Notre Dame-WH has played four teams who were in the Top 10 at the time of their game. ND won two of those games. Would you be able to say the same about Darien or Staples? Look at the the Freeman and Massey computer rankings–NDWH is a Top 10 team in both (and they probably won’t make the playoffs this year due to their schedule).
@ James, since you brought it up, who from the FCIAC is legitimately in the state title conversation this year? St. Joes won’t qualify in ‘S’ this year.
Doesnt Bridgeport Central play North Haven this year.That should be fodder for thi sites posters
It’s a lot harder to qualify for the states while playing in the SCC. NDWH is as good or better than anyone in the Class L except Masuk. Ditto Cheshire in the Class LL-minus Xavier.
This years McMahon team would do very well in any league but they will still end up with probably 4 losses in the FCIAC. Two good leagues who will be playing each other in the future. The FCIAC and the SCC are looking into a rotating schedule on all bye weeks or in years when the CIAC allows all teams an 11th game.
The SWC is very top heavy with outstanding teams who can beat anyone, anywhere at any time. With the ever increasing population in the SWC high schools it’s only a matter of time before they will be the dominant conference.
@Roto – i believe we have to put New Canaan in the state title conversation every year dont we? I believe that they have earned that. Staples will also be in the State title conversation and i actually think they will have the best chance of any team to give Xavier a game. I know everyone want to see Hand v. Masuk but i beleive it will be a rematch from last year sans Macari/Testani
FCIAC scheduling is incredibly uneven – where the elite teams only agree to play a couple games against one another.
We have stated in post #11 that Trumbull has to pay the FCIAC big 4 (Greenwich, NC, Staples, Darien) and in post #9 that McMahon plays 3 of the Big 4, subbing Ridgefield instead of Staples. (Ridgefield may not be elite, they are upper tier.)
Why do Trumbull and McMahon have tougher scheduling than New Canaan?
NC doesn’t play Greenwich, Staples, or Ridgefield… and they only play Darien -after- the league championship game.
Oh, we may wind up with NC vs. Staples for the FCIAC championship… in a game that conveniently doesn’t count to hurt either teams’ playoff chances.
The SCC’s scheduling is not perfect, but it clearly (1) creates better games week by week (forcing upper tier teams to play the majority of their games vs. other upper tier teams) (2) hurts teams chances of making the playoffs.
Today’s trivia question: How many of the current Top 10 schools have a win against a team that, at the time of the win, was in the Top 10? Answer: Only Xavier, who beat Cheshire for their third win. Interestingly, the team with the most wins over ranked Top 10 teams (as pointed out by roto) is never ranked ND-WH, who knocked off West Haven and North Haven. North Haven had knocked off pre-season pick Hillhouse in week one while Trumbull’s half-loss to Catholic Memorial (before the power went out at half) knocked them out for good. Obviosuly Darien or Staples will join Xavier next week on the rarified “Giant Kills Giant” list.
In regards to the FCIAC vs SCC scheduling argument, I think an important point that needs to be brought up is: Who benefits from the SCC schedule? The best teams in the league do not. It seems the only people who do are high school football fans. And I don’t mean fans of the specific SCC teams, but fans in general. People who enjoy going to different “marquee” games every weekend. It gives “Bay” something interesting to muse about on this site. Also, reporters who prefer to cover big competitive games as opposed to lopsided blowouts.
But is that the point, to benefit a small number of high school fanatics and an even smaller number of reporters? I would say no.
The SCC schedule is designed to promote parity. The theory is that all the biggest and best teams should play each other, and the smaller and weaker teams should play each other. This makes sense in theory. And in practice, it does accomplish the goal of parity. But is that what the teams want? Do they enjoy the parity? Do they like making the playoffs about twice every decade?
The SCC schedule marginally helps the Div II teams at the cost of severely hurting the Div I teams. Let me explain what I mean by that. Let’s assume that the SCC did away with the Div I and II format and threw everybody in the same pool. Each team had an equal chance to play each other team. Just as an example, what would Sheehan’s record be under those circumstances? 3-7? Maybe 4-6? And what will the Sheehan record be this year? Either 5-5 or 6-4. So you have moderately helped the Sheehan record.
Now do this same exercise with Shelton and Notre Dame. It is highly probable that both Shelton and Notre Dame would end up with easier schedules in the “everybody in the pool” format than the current Div I and II format. Both teams will likely just miss the playoffs this year, but may have made it in with one less loss.
Again, the current league format does well to marginally improve the record of inferior teams, but at what cost? At the cost of preventing quality Div I teams from making the playoffs. This does not seem to make sense.
There is no practical counter to my argument. The only counter would be one based on ideology: you should play the best competition you can, make the playoff berth mean something, it is not “fair” for Law to play Cheshire, Xavier, and Hand, and so on.
To the ideologists I ask this: why is it ok to prevent the cream rising to the top like it does in all other leagues? Why is it ok to artificially improve the Div II teams’ records? That is what the current system does.
@Patrick. I see your point. I may agree with it more at the end of the season if a 9-1 North Haven goes to the playoffs while a 8-2 NDWH team stays home. For now, i’m still on the side that earning local bragging rights trumps gaming the playoff system. One consideration is tradition…NDWH has played WH, Hamden, Prep and Xavier every year for decades, even when those schools were in three different leagues.
@patrick
The SCC D1, D2 scheduling format was done in the interest of good sportmanship. Law and Foran were coming into the league from the SWC and did not want to play the SCC top team week in and week out. Also the kids enjoy a competative game. It is more fun to play in front of a large crowd in a close game than winning 56-6 in an empty stadium. (watch Ansonia highlights you can count the fans).
Patrick,
If you were a player, would you rather play for a quality team that plays 4-5 big games a year during the regular season…where you really get fired up and need a good week of practice….or for a team that plays an awful schedule where you need to “shut it down” by halftime week after week?
Patick whoever came up with the SCC schedule is a genius. I wish that person would discuss schedule realignment with the FCIAC and the SWC.
I am speaking only as a football fan and a former player who ehjoys tough competition.
Jeb – agreed.
I started to take a quick look at the current year schedule for last year’s State Champions. What immediately jumped out was Masuk vs. SJ.
Through 6 games Masuk has played teams with a COMBINED 6 wins.
And..on the other side of the coin…SJ has played teams with a combined record of 25-9 (with 4 of the loses belonging to Harding).
Staples/Wilton/Darien are all “currently” in the top 10 with a combined record of 17-0.
So…my question is…IF Masuk were 6-0, and they had played SJ’s schedule to this point…would they be sitting at #1 or #2?
Dear Sean,
You do a terrific job. My question is regarding state competition.
Most of the elite programs in the Northeast play elite teams from other states. Masuk seems to enjoy running up the score on much weaker in-state opponents. I would like to see Masuk play my alma mater Don Bosco Prep (NJ). I would be surprised if Masuk scored more than 7 points and gave up fewer than 50.
Thanks!
Edit to #24:
Staples/Darien/NC….combined are 17-0.
Chris, I’m not a big fan of Bosco’s style of high school football. Meaning, I can’t stand this whole national thing. I’m a regionalist. We have enough problems getting matchups from some of this state’s best programs to say nothing about getting out-of-state competition. While that can be fun and interesting to a degree, it’s a novelty.
My personal opinion is that ‘The College,’ and other high school programs of its ilk, would whup up on any team in this state by the score of ‘Too Much’ to ‘Not Enough.’
I agree with Chris.. It’s about time we put an end to the GREAT MASUK debate. Masuk can stay in CT and get a good whipping. Their QB won’t have all day to stand in the pocket against those 175 lb linemen. They could play against teams that have 250 – 280 lb linemen with spead. Plus, Masuk and their fans would not what to do if they ever played Don Bosco.
Well said Sean. It does help to have a roster made out of the tri-states best athletes. Bosco is fun to watch if you ever have an off weekend to head to North Jersey.
Keep up the great work.
Thanks for your response.
Chris
@Chris – from a guy who also knows a lot about Bosco this year, and has seen a few of their games, Bosco would win but they would not keep masuk to just 7 and their is no way Bosco’s offense puts up 50 on them. you can talk to anyone including mike quick whom i have gone to some games with Bosco is nothing to write home about on offense, it just so happens they have 7 1-A players on defense verbally committed anyway. hence the old saying “defense wins championships”
@All — on the subject of scheduling: The SCC has been progressive in divvying up its league into a Division I and a Division II. It’s cut down dramatically on mismatches between large schools and small schools in that league. The CCC and ECC have followed suit (to varying degrees of success and failure). I love it. It is, on the whole, fair and balanced.
The rest of the leagues don’t follow this model because a) they’re married to their money-making league championship games. b) their leagues are slightly more equal in size and stature.
The D1-D2 approach wouldn’t make sense in the NVL, since all of teams are relatively equal in demographics, if not size. That’s a pretty balanced league.
The SWC has long held a stance that its members are relatively equal, and therefore unnecessary to divide like the SCC. I’d argue this is no longer the case. The larger schools, the Pomperaugs, the Newtowns, Masuks, Bunnells etc. — have long dominated the league since its inception. So much that the league created these fake “divisions” and hands out trophies to subdue the smaller schools. So there’s clearly a divide. I’ve already argued, as have some small-school SWC coaches, that the league should start to schedule by using these divisions to create a more competitive environment. Of course, that would create an imbalance for a league championship game (which I believe is useless anyway). So you’re at an impasse there unless you want your small division champ playing the large, which makes no sense.
(Aside: To be clear, i dont mind when certain programs dominate a league for years, but when the common denominator of the dominating programs is size then there might be an issue.)
The FCIAC, if you look at it, is pretty much an equal league. It is almost exclusively filled with Class LL and L schools. Only Trinity Catholic and St. Joseph are lower than L. And they’ve attempted to schedule by using three distinct divisions — Large, Medium and Small. Unfortunately, that approach has created a league schedule that’s all over the place and prevents many of the top programs from facing each other in the regular season. (This year has been largely devoid of ‘The Big Game’ until this week). You could argue that there are ‘haves’ and ‘have nots’ and perhaps you could divide the FCIAC in half based on strength and performance (kind of like state hockey) — dropping the Staples, Greenwiches, New Canaans, Dariens etc into one side, and then pitting the smaller schools into the other. Once again, since 90 percent of the FCIAC is Class LL and L, you’d have some teams in the lower division with some pretty inflated records in Class L and LL come state tournament time, and that’s no good from a competitive standpoint.
Also, the FCIAC is unique because it has two cities with three teams. There’s a rule that the Stamford schools and the Bridgeport schools must play each other. Ask Central how great this set up is. Yeah, they get to play rivals Bassick and Harding. The kids get up for it. But Central loses big on state playoff points (re: 2009).
I have no solutions for the FCIAC. I’ve tried hard to figure a way to divide that league like the SCC and I’ve come away frustrated. It would be nice if that league could get a 20th team and then divide into two, equal divisions based on performance. But until then, we’re kind of stuck.
@Chris – I’m sure it is. I hear about ‘em all the time. Thanks for the comment.
@jeb – Not to toot my own horn but — ‘toot! toot!’ — Ray Curren and I came up with the current SCC format as it stands now, spurred on by Fairfield Prep’s 75-0 victory over East Haven in 2002. We hammered it out a few months later and Ray wrote a column describing our idea for my newspaper in 2003. The North Haven principal loved the idea and it became a meme among the smaller schools. Law and Foran practically demanded it and, thankfully, the administrators of the league voted for it. Voila! In 2004 we had the Division I and Division II set up looking miraculously similar to our idea.
@ Chuck Norris – Bosco has 7 1A commits on D plus a super soph (Jabril Peppers) who will go 1A. Their QB is average, but the supporting cast makes up for it. The size and speed of Bosco can not be replicated, just ask Mission Viejo (California) and St. Edwards (Ohio) who were two nationally ranked teams, loaded on offense and defense with 1A talent. Bosco manhandled both by a combined score of 73-14. Masuk is a very good team in the state of CT, but let’s not get carried away with their talent.
Chris,
Who ever got carried away with Masuks talent? I havnt heard their kids names singled out at all besides the Q. Nobody said they were world beaters. (just Xavier beaters). Seems like your just looking to show how inferior CT is to Jersey. What is your agenda?
@Chris – Let’s get real here. Don Bosco is a recruit laden multi-state all-star team. To compare them to Masuk or any other single town team is insulting. Sure a few families here in CT uproot themselves and move to another town purely for sports reasons (Masuk being a recent example btw), but that’s a far cry from recruiting kids from the tri-state area. So far CT has had its share of D1 college recruits and even pro athletes as is, and I sincerely hope it stays that way.
Not throwing rocks at this Glass House. My original point in an earlier comment was simple: superior HS teams from MA, NJ, NY and PA all play elite out-of-state competition. I do not see CT schools doing this and would like to see how they fare. I think CT football is underrated, but believe they have to prove this on a larger scale by playing the best competition around. I am a Bosco alum so I used my school as the benchmark. Everyone talks about Bosco recruiting, but that happens everywhere. St. Joe’s, Fairfield Prep and Xavier all recruit because they draw from towns surrounding their location. Bosco just gets more publicity for recruiting because of their success and their national exposure.
Great Job SPB.
Well Chris, simply put CT is the last state of them all to play a game and has silly thanksgiving games so the many opportunities for out of state games are often squandered. So you will not see CT schools doing this. So farewell. NJ football is better than CT. You win. Although its funny you were the only one trying to argue that. Bye.
@SPB –
SCC divisonal set-up – check
CIAC Playoff revision – check
50 point rule addressed – pending
Are you taking suggestions for “next” or do you already have an agenda? If so…there are a few things I’d like to get taken care of.
@Nostrand Lay ‘em on me! I’m on a roll!
@37 Chris- I am also from Jersey. Please do not compare the level of recruiting-much much less here in CT. than in Jersey. Bosco, Bergen C.St. Joes, St Peters, Paramus C. the list goes on…Also- agree with you regarding the talent level. There are probably 10 teams in Jersey that would beat Xavier and Masuk.
How many Jersey guys we got on this space anyway???