Our own Dave Ruden is reporting today that the CIAC football committee will retain the 50-point policy for the upcoming season.
On Twitter, Ruden said the controversial policy — which prohibits football teams from winning by more than 50 points, and subjects offending coaches to a possible one-game suspension (following a hearing) — was set to be abolished until New Canaan’s Lou Marinelli apparently swayed the vote.
Click here for the full story.
Some CIAC powers have gone on the record saying that the policy has “worked.” Scoring margins have declined significantly since the policy was implemented in 2006. Only a handful of coaches have broken the barrier, but only one has actually been suspended.
But the policy has also resorted coaches to using exotic and innovative strategies to keep their teams below the magic mark. Among them: Punting before 4th down… taking knees… intentional grounding… intentional falling… intentional safeties… allowing opponents to score… (insert your favorite here).
Before we get to that, we’re (again) going to put this to a simple vote to everyone here.
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It is a well intentioned rule, and Coach Marinelli’s comments are well taken. But I detest the hoops it makes coaches jump through to try to comply, which I believe are more demeaning to the trailing team than losing 72-0. And those hoops give both teams the message to play at half speed — increaisng risk of injury.
Go to running time at a 25 or 30 point margin. Let the trailing coach have the option to refuse running time if he feels his team can come back or that it isn’t the right thing to do. Most of all, let the programs polce each other. If we suddenly have a lot of 60 point games, you can always re-impose it.
While I respect Lou as a coach immensely, the fatal flaw in any argument is speaking on behalf of others outside your immediate group, namely the kids on the losing side of blowouts. Fortunately this is an easy problem to solve– you poll high school football players with these two questions: 1) Were you ever on the losing side of a 50+ point blowout?, and 2) If so, were you thankful and supportive of the rule that prevented the other team from being allowed to continue to pile up points against you?
My sense is that you’ll find the parents and coaches are the ones who feel demoralized, while the kids forget about it two seconds after leaving the field. Bottom line is, it’s silly to make an argument about how you think kids might feel when you can ask them directly. Now if someone would please do that so we can stop debating this…
Here’s my spin:
1. As a former highschool and collegiate football player I rather get beat 72-0 then someone taking a knee with 4 minutes left in the game or letting us score or fumbling on purpose…which by the way is more humiliating!
2. The coach that gives up that many points should be the one suspended
3. I feel bad for the JV’s who work hard all week and when they get their opportunity to showcase their talent they’re asked to take a knee or the WR that won’t get a ball thrown to him because it’s not right to throw when your up so many points.
4. How about if I’m loosing 49-0 and I’m on the 1 yard line with 5 seconds left and I don’t like the opposing coach and I take a safety to put the score at 51-0…he’s suspended for the next game.
5. Let the kids play and hopefully the coaches are smart enough to do the right thing by taking the starters out. The refs can police the game because they know who the starters are and if the coaches are running up the score.
How about a “Mercy Rule” instead? I know its used in Baseball to save pitching but can teams really learn anything when they are ahead or down by that much?
Instead of asking a coach that is never on the losing end of the 50 pt rule. Why don’t they ask the older coaches that have experience on both sides of the topic. I do not like the rule as I have been on both ends of the 50 point rule. It needs to be gone. I have seen children more demoralized during games that were held under 50 point losses than I have had when we have lost by 50 or more.
Unless you eliminate the power LL/L programs from playing the S&M teams (no pun intended), then we need the 50 point rule otherwise teams like Masuk will just end up holding all the State records in scoring/passing/rushing :)
Maybe the New Canaan Coach just hates the number 50. That’s what Masuk put up on them JB. A little farm town. Is Newtown LL? What was that combined score the past 2 years.
Everyone loves to hate Masuk.
What is gained by running up the score. In the 4th Quarter (when most of the “flags” and purposeful kneel-downs occur) when your up by 40+ what difference does it make if you beat a team by more than 50, you should not be focused on the final score at that point. The only thing you need to focus on is what you are going to say at the handshake, and who your playing next week. It is pathetic to think that coaches actually would care about being able to beat a team by more than 50pts. Those types of games are only good for the future of the team, so that they can try out new players and rest those that are playing injured.
The only time that I can condole beating a team by 50+ pts.Is in the playoffs because if you can beat a playoff team by more than 50pts. THATS A STATEMENT.
Otherwise Coaches, shut your mouth if you think the legacy by your season will be judged by whether you beat Bassick 72-0 your crazy.
Thank you Coach Marinelli for doing what had to be done even when the issue had really no effect on your continuously thriving program (in the regular season)
If you’re going to have a 50 point rule, then just stop the game at that point if you’re not going to allow the winning team to actually play the game. The object of the game is to score points. If a team cannot do that without fear of getting its coach suspended then it’s no longer a football game, it’s a farce. The kids on the winning side have to start doing things wrong intentionally. Is that what is wanted?
Having a rule that creates a situation where the goal is not to succeed is just ridiculous. The 50 point rule does exactly the opposite of what it’s intended to do. It forces the winning team to create ways to not advance the ball. It’s demoralizing and it magnifies the embarrassment of getting blown out. I wouldn’t want to look the other players in the eyes if I were on either end of the rule as it stands.
The only way to keep the scores down and still protect the integrity of the game is to implement a running clock. It will keep the scoring down, allow JV players to get some varsity experience and keep teams from mounting a comeback.
Beating a team by 50pts doesn’t mean “success”. It just means the game was a mis-match. Sounds like the debate may be in the wrong place. Coaches and conference boards need to look at scheduling better or maybe even realignment for some schools. To even have to debate the rule means we have too many regular season mis-matches.
There is no glory in running up the score. Run into the line, take a knee. The coach should always be in control of his team. That being said teams that find themselves on either end of this situation year after year should look into some scheduling changes even if it means joining a different league.
@Red Snapper – how many times if any has Coach Marinelli lost by more than 50 points?
I really don’t know the answer to that, but I can only assume that it hasn’t been many times. That being said, it’s remarkable for a Coach that could be beating teams by more than 50 more often than not would stick up for this rule.
No need to beat a team by more than 50. A lot of people say it doesn’t teach kids how to lose or fail. However in my opinion it teaches something more important – class. No one has ever argued the amount of class Coach Marinelli and his program have showed over the years.
Maybe they should talk to the players (not coaches, not parents, not fans) of the teams that lose by 50 or more. Those are the only ones we should be worrying about.
Give them options:
A) Keep the current or similar system where there a set number of points and if a team wins but that much or more the coach can be suspended.
B) Have no point rule whatsoever
C) Modifications such as running time, mercy rule (game stops if a team is up by more than X points after Y amount of time)
D) All wins by more than X points are reviewed. As long as winning coach does certain things such as putting back-ups in, no trick plays, always punting on 4th down, etc; there is no penalty. However the team does not have to stop trying. If a JV RB breaks a long run, he doesn’t have to sit down at the 5 yard line. Losing coach and referee input would be part of the decision.
E) Combination of things.
See what the players say they would prefer to have happen.
And this is all because one or two coaches were trying to embarrass other teams. When coaches do that it is usually obvious and the CIAC should just use some judgement instead of trying to a priori determine what is or what is not an attempt at embarrassing a team.
Hey all of you putzes advocating the continuation of the 50 point rule are basically advocating the wrong way to teach our kids. Is it fair to lose to a team in such a lopsided manner? Nope. Is life always fair? Nope. Should a situation like the one which happened in the Masuk vs. Immaculate game this past fall, where Colin Markus was running in for a score and had to ask his coach whether or not he should go into the end zone in order to avoid any potential ramifications an embarrassment to more than just Immaculate but the entire CIAC and its decision-makers and participants? Absolutely. Oftentimes it is just as embarrassing to the losing team to have the aforementioned scenario occur, or in other cases have coaches instructing their players to purposely snap the ball out of the end zone on a punt in order to “stay within the rules.” Additionally, as Jack Cochran himself remarked in defense of the lopsided beat downs he was dishing out to opponents that led to the rule, why don’t we look at the fact that many of the teams who are on the losing side aren’t working hard in the weight room and offseason in general, and therefore they don’t merit any mercy from their opponents. Unless kids are getting carted off the field or if teams are running reverses on two-point conversions up 50, I don’t see the point
The point is Immaculate has about 20 kids on its varsity team and could never have competed with Masuk. Those two schools should never even play each other in football. It does nothing for either team. And the kids know it.
Reduce the regular season severe mis-matches and then we can eliminate the 50 point rule.
Funny that Tweets about Seymour opening up with Eli Whitney are popping up next to the discussion about the 50 point policy. The Wildcats will almost certainly have to utilize “clock management strategies” in that one.
Typical NVL school looking for an easy win instead of finding a challenging game. I also see that Torrington is trying to get out if playing Ansonia in game 1.
2013- Ansonia vs. Masuk. Site TBD.
Anti-NVL…what other conferences are out there looking for tough match ups? Where is the SCC/FCIAC battle? If that is going to happen in 2013…wonderful….but how can you say that is “typical NVL”?
I would say it’s pretty typical of every school. Other than NL and Greenwich, where are all these power match ups from conferences outside the NVL?
Watertown played Montville last year, Torrington played East Lyme 2 years ago and then was dropped by East Lyme… Ansonia was dropped by Hillhouse, Naugatuck played ND West Haven and East Longmeadow Mass…
Typical?
Ribbs, the SCC is already playing a difficult schedule because we have 6-7 Ansonias’ and Torrington just has to grow some cahones instead of crying they are going to lose before the even played they game
The SCC is better than the NVL without a doubt, but they don’t have one Ansonia in 2012. Fact.
Hillhouse NEVER dropped Ansonia from it’s schedule……….you guys that post this S&*T is unreal. You need to get a life. If anything I think it’s the other way around. I know Coach Dyer would play anyone, anytime…..would Brocket do the same????? Scrimmages don’t count.
Boss blog, I seriously shouldn’t even address your more then idiotic statement but I can’t control myself. Xavier and Hand would have absolutely demolished Ansonia last year and Xavier will be a threepeat state champion next year with Hand close behind. Notre Dame is better then AHS and maybe even West Haven or North Haven. WOW it must be something in the valley water that makes these fools crazy
Folks please. Students read this. All one call do is play the team scheduled. The CIAC playoffs permit the competitive nmatch-ups we all desire.
Auntie NVL, the difference is I actually have watched and continue to watch ALL of these schools play. We can argue over Hand and Xavier being better than Ansonia last year, but I won’t listen to your ignorance regarding ND, West Haven or North Haven. Ansonia will be the states number one team by the end of 2012. Newsome is the states best returning player. He is not the only D1 caliber talent on the team.
“Newsome isn’t the only div1 talent” really? Recent history has shown that Ansonia may have 1 or in a real good year 2 div 1 players.Case in point 2006 when according to most of all of you people from Ansonia said it may have been one of the best teams ever,how many div 1 players did you have ,1A that is:answer 1. Don’t come on here saying that you have multiple div1 players on your roster because the only schools that do are the preps in the state. Newsome is probably a definite but NOBODY else is.
How many times have you seen Ansonia play? You just regurgitate the same BS you hear at the water cooler. Go to the indoor complex in Monroe on Sunday’s at 5pm and see whats going on with ND, Hand, Masuk, Bunnell, Ridgefield, Middletown and a bunch of others. Take a good look at Matos (the WR from Ansonia) and tell me where he’ll go. He’s turning heads on J. Cochrans 7 on 7 All Star team and is getting the attention he doesn’t get in Ansonias run happy offense. Compare apples to apples and tell everyone how Ansonia looks next to these teams. If you don’t really know….,,don’t comment.
A. Matos, WR Ansonia. 6’0″ 200lbs, benches 300lbs squats in the mid 400lbs and runs a 4.49 40 yrd dash. The kid has great hands and is just raw talent.
BB I have seen Ansonia play 3 times last year and a couple the year before that, is that good enough for you? So let me get this straight,your saying that because a kid is doing well in a basically pick-up sandlot football game that he will be getting offers from it? hahaha OK. Im sure that the recruiters are all lining up in the Trumbull indoor facility with their LOI’s to be signed.
If your playing for Ansonia and your a WR you cant or maybe you should complain? I know this,I would be pissed if I was growing up in Ansonia my whole life and sone kid moves into my school from Waterbury that is one of the best RB’s in the country and basically makes me obsolete. Hey I hear hes a good run blocker and stalks the crap out of the safety.
No, but they do attend passing tournaments where the best high school QB’s, WR’s, DB’s and LB’s are. They also attend combines where they basically just do drills on air. Your obviously clueless to the way things work and how athletes are getting themselves noticed. Rather then post knee jerk reaction comments you should slow down and comprehend what I wrote. I said YOU should go to the complex in Monroe and that the player was raising his stock with the All Star team. The recruiters ARE in fact going to the top passing tournaments and combines.
One of the reasons why Newsome had the year he had was because of the size, strength and selflessness of their WR’s. Now that Newsome has the #1 spot in CT rushing history maybe you’ll see this WR get more touches. I’m sure that it would help the player get more attention.
Hate the NVL as much as you want to, but Ansonia has maybe the best group of skill players in the state. Their RB, QB and WR all run 4.5 40′s or lower.
In my opinion, just so you know I do have a feel for who’s who and what real talent is, here’s the top LB/FB in southern CT
Well your wrong again,the best FB/LB is at Cheshire Academy(Cory Jasudowich) With offers from Uconn,Iowa,and Syracuse. But keep trying to sound like you know what your talking about
At the end of the day both players will be stepping on the field at big time schools. In my opinion, seeing Walsh more than a handful of times, he’s the best. Being wrong again would mean I was wrong on another account. The long list of schools you had beating Ansonia, WRONG. They Don’t have more then one D1 player in their team, WRONG again (WR might not go to a Big time program, but it’ll be D1). College scouts don’t attend passing tournaments, WRONG. We’ll see how the careers of the two fore mentioned players pans out. You keep up the good work Auntie and keep the hate comming.
Ansonia will have no D1 players due to academics, not playing ability. True
1.They have a great history and a very long list of players that have gone on and had great college careers.
2. Your a clown.
Yes, correct statement boss. Prior to the emergence of academic standards.
Boss, can you name any div1A player that came out of Ansonia in the last 10yrs that lasted in college and got their degree while playing football? This is a honest to goodness question,no ball breaking here
They have quite a few football players that have played and graduated from Universities such as Yale, Brown, Columbia and Stanford. For every student athlete you can publicly belittle on here they have fifty or so stories of success. I’m done with this little back and forth. I look forward to another HD football season and AHS’s 18th state title. Good luck.
HS not HD. Damn you fat fingers.
Do you realize that every year they have football players that don’t play a sport in college, yet they attend universities that compete in D1 athletics. Their tightend/defensive end Jake Larovera was just honored By The National Football Foundation as a scholar athlete. They do have quite a few players (last 10yrs) that have gone to school on footballs dime. Maybe not a BCS school, but certainly by teams in leagues that see guys get drafted. Does Rugby count? Their QB from the 2009 team starts for Clemson. The point is that the number of success stories outweighs the hiccups. The last player they had in the NFL retired in “96″ or “97″ . They have had more than a couple through the years. I’m really done now. Do your homework and you’ll see how far off you are. Maybe Ray Brown could give you names.
ansonia has had more players play in the ivy league than any other school in ct.In the long run,id take that.p.s. anti—–ansonia has more state championships than xavier and hand put together.
Ray, not talking state championships cause if Xavier or Hand were playing in class S they would have just as many!! BB I wasnt trying to torque you up,I seriously wanted to know if Ansonia had the div 1A athletes that you all claim,i was thinking that I may have been mistaken,guess not. Coughlin and the kid who went to San Diego St were the last two and that was what mid 90′s? The SCC has more players in the NFL then the NVL has div 1A players!!!
Ray, I am aware of Sharkey, the man who sadly lost his battle to cancer last year who played at Cornell, obviously Alex Thomas, and Mitchell from last year who is at Penn for academics, credit to all of them, and I am sure I am forgetting a few others; but can you honestly substantiate the fact that “ansonia has had more players play in the ivy league than any other school in ct?” And why do you have to go after Xavier and Hand? I thought you respected the SCC Wags?
Ansonia is failing to prepare their student athletes with an education. They are fixing grades in order to play. There is a reason why Newsome is a 17 yr old soph and soon to be an 18 yr old junior. Grades are now very important in the recruiting process. There are academic standards that kids have to be up to.
Pomp, Xavier was a dog for a long long time and would not of had the success you claim they would have. Sharky (Brown), Coughlin brothers (Columbia, Stanford), Stallings (San Diego st, Bangels) Berkowski, Richmond (UCONN) Kinnebrew (Arkansas), Walker (West Virginia), Diuto (U of Ohio) Marajasic (Boston College), Clark (Hampton U), DiGregorrio (U Penn)…….That was the 90′s.
Boss Blog, most of the kids you mentioned either did nothing at the college level or didn’t get their degree or both: FACTS!
For the record, SWC kids do you really well in college and more than a few including Bannon, Lutrus, Fenaroli, and Shannon Jame have found themselves on NFL rosters
perspective—your lack of knowledge rears again—the guy who passed away was the all-time passing leader at brown not cornell.i could fill this page with ivy-league players from ansonia but whats the point?facts are guys like stallings,osciecki,eric stokes,glenn antrum
all played at the highest level,and the most powerful NFL player agent
is from ansonia,so whats your point? as far as respecting the scc,the conference has 24 schools.but untill it admitted the old shoreline and district league teams ,they were garbage in football.
The only one that I think didn’t get his degree was Diuto. Two others graduated from other schools (Clark UNH, Marajasic ?). I don’t get it.
R Brown,aren’t those names from the 70′s,80′s,and very early 90′s? Where are the names from 1995-2011? Let’s see there is KT(oh snap he didn’t even make one whole year),well at least there is EK(oops he got booted out of Uconn) If there is one recently please tell us.
Yes, thanks for the back-up anti-NVL, hey Ray, I mean Wags, considering how much I know about your town and your team considering I loathe and despise the community and football program, and direct my attention more towards the bigger leagues in the state I would say my knowledge of Charger football history is sufficient, but anyways, the point is a lot of your guys didn’t do much at the college level, Sandy OZ was behind Pagel at ASU wasn’t he? Luke Richmond went from supposedly going to Ohio State to barely starting for a still D- IAA UConn, And an unfortunate weightlifting injury to Steve Coughlin (probably because Hunt and the others never knew proper weightlifting technique from anything)sadly derailed the career of when of the best hs players I ever saw in person.) So Ray stop with the insults and belligerent Ansonia propaganda machine and eat a nice big slice of humble pie, listen and I could teach you a few things
And Ray, Tom Condon went to Nd West Haven bro, he’s an Ansonia guy, but hardly a Charger
Is it true that Ansonia will have an extra terrestrial playing this year? Heard he moved in from by Stargate from the Pegasus Galaxy, where he was playing at a AAA high school. Wonder if he will play D1, or perhaps D2 when he graduates?
Valley Falls you should do stand up comedy somewhere, are you one of those valley guys not from Ansonia who is afraid to utter a bad word about their fabled and storied yet sometimes tragic and flawed program? Or if your sarcasm is your way of attempting to change the topic of discussion perhaps you can enlighten us
You hate them so much and continue to jock sniff?
Boss, I cannot help but be an authority on your beloved program, I would have to completely ignore the glut of braggadocios information supported by you Charger backers on this blog and the NVL blog. Credit to you guys for keeping everyone informed about your team’s accomplishments and reigning superiority over all of the rest of CT high school football programs, ha ha, but really it’s nauseating. I truly wish I could hear about other top programs that handle themselves with much more class and dignity than yours, i.e. Hand, Xavier, Staples, and New Canaan. But please, I encourage you to continue the bombastic onslaught of Charger nation, I always feel more intelligent by comparison
If it stopped you’d have nothing to add to the conversation! Sniff Sniff
Could care less about changing the subject. It was my sarcastic attempt to illustrate the absurdity of the discussion. I have often thought that much of what I do for a living is somewhat comedic :). Tradgey and failure are a part of life. I can confirm that Tom Condon went to NDWH, played against him in ’69. Very tough game that year NDWH-14, Ansonia-0.
Go Lavender! Go Blue! GO Chargers!
@ Boss
Ansonia football manages to stay in the news without your cheerleading
http://www.ctpost.com/local/article/After-the-Goal-Rush-2431134.php
http://www.ctpost.com/local/article/A-portrait-of-Tyree-Smith-man-accused-of-3361634.php
Boring..popping blue smoke, outta here
Thanks Just Win, that’s the Ansonia you never hear about from these guys who throw big stones from a very fragile, glass house that is Ansonia, CT. Both sides of my family come from Ansonia when it was a respectable, blue collar community but it has seen better days for sure. I mean, didn’t a juvenile get shot in the chest last week? It is sad and that stuff is heavy, but considering the win at all costs mentality used with AHS Football and the belligerence displayed by the bloggers on this site, they need to be put in their place.
The victim has family and friends that just might enjoy high school football, maybe even visit this blog. I’m sure they don’t want to be reminded of what some piece of S#*? took away from them. Stay classy baby. Sniff Sniff
We’re talking about football, right? Jackass
I don’t know how the 50 point policy article turned into a point-counterpoint on Ansonia, but to save newcomers some time, I’ll catch you up so you don’t have to read all 50 posts: Ansonia is great at high school football (one side’s argument)and bad at everything else (the other side’s argument). Even the town’s Taco Bell caught on fire, leaving them with Duchess as their only landmark restaurant (could be worse).
Sidenote: that cannibal guy never played for Ansonia. He went to a couple practices one year but that’s all.
This argument about what Ansonia football players do in their life after they graduate is such a non sequitur (definition of non sequitur: a comment that, because of its apparent lack of meaning relative to what preceded it, seems absurd to the point of being confusing.)
We can all agree that the reason people follow high school football, the reason for this blog’s existence, is because of wins and losses in the actual games. When we speak of a program’s success, we are speaking of their playing record, their playoff appearances, and their state championships. That is what we judge a program on.
It goes without saying that there is more to high school football than wins and losses. Developing character, instilling a work ethic, and preparing young men for life post high school are all part of the equation. But that is not what is being debated when people are talking about “Team X is better than Team Y.” Those arguments revolve around on field activities and accomplishments.
The reason Ansonia gets trashed for the failure of some of their athletes post high school is ONLY because of their tremendous success on the field. Funny, I don’t read much Harding bashing on here for the lack of Ivy League players they produce. Nor do I read feature articles in the CT Post about how many Bassick alumni are currently in prison or have been murdered. Why is that? Because nobody cares. Because Ansonia is, and has always been, the straw that stirs the drink in this state. Ironically, all the talk from the haters only serves to embellish the program they despise so much.
Ansonia is small city with big city problems. It has low income housing projects and a larger percent of poverty than almost all towns in CT outside of New Haven, Bridgeport, Waterbury, etc. There is no debate about this. It is not a secret. If you want to make the claim that a random student from Ansonia is statistically less likely to attend college than than a random student from Woodbridge, Darien, or Weston, there is no argument. That is true. But that has nothing to do with this blog and nothing to do with football.
Plenty of successful people have graduated through the Ansonia football program. There have also been some who have not reached their potential, or have outright failed. That is what happens in life. Listing individual people and the colleges they attended is totally unnecessary and irrelevant.
Excellent points. However, the talk of ansonia players doing well in college came about in talks of 18 year old soph that ansonia has and his college future.
Boss, I was trying to convey how sad a situation that was with regards to the shooting, as far as class, I will leave that for Ray Brown to exude on this blog, and you Ansonia guys really have nothing better to do but back your team but your attendance at home games sucks? Oh the town fell on hard times, yeah I forgot thats your excuse anyways, but this blog is strictly about wins in losses in high school football, because let’s be honest it is all you have going for you and Boss sniff sniff you would know
B. The student shall not have reached his or her twentieth (20th ) birthday. A student-athlete will not be allowed to start a season or compete during a season in which his/her twentieth (20th ) birthday falls.
Last time I checked these were the same rules for everyone.
You are correct. However, being 2 years older is not a good sign for college recruiting.
I know this is a football site BUT how about Pomperaug Baseball had back to back no-hitters this week. That has to get a shout out,very impressive. I am still shocked they arent in the top 10 in the rankings this year, they had a 3-2 Amity team ranked,please.
Went to uconn spring game. Couldnt tell if it was bad offense or good defense. Casey Cochran played decemt. Great to see him out there since he graduated early.
Do you think that if newsome was in his correct grade he could have competed out there today had he left early? (as cochran did)
@PompFan04 — Try this site: http://blog.ctnews.com/ctbase … no shout-out yet, but…
Rob,
Nice post. Congrats to Pomperaug Baseball players
Go Lavender, Go Blue, GO Chargers!