The CIAC football committee met Wednesday to discuss, among other things, the impending move of its championship games to Central Connecticut State.
There was nothing official to report on that matter as of Thursday. But, make no mistake, it’s going to happen. And soon.
We’re told that the football committee wants to move. All that’s left is crossing crossing the ‘Ts’ and dotting the lowercase ‘Js’ on a contract that will free the CIAC from the shackles of the oppressive money pit that is Rentschler Field and send championship weekend to newly refurbished Arute Field in New Britain.
So, once they agree to a deal, we’ll get four games in a confined venue to make the 5,000-plus who show up look like it’s the Super Bowl (satisfying some of the Rent detractors).
There’s plenty of space for the growing media coverage. Plus, if inclement weather finally rears its head in December, Central has a turf field to handle it. Oh, and the CIAC will be satisfied by making a better profit.
But that’s not what’s making waves today. (Update: Not in the morning, at least)
What is officially being bandied about, according to Ned ‘Polecat’ Griffen of The Day, is discussions over tweaking the state playoffs to create a Tech and Co-Op school division or (are you ready for this?), adding an Open Division in hopes of creating a true champion.
Granted, this was all just talk for now. Don’t expect changes anytime soon. The CIAC is committed to the current system until 2015, Ned reports. And these kinds of things need to be discussed, and debated and re-debated and all of the logistics need to be hammered out before it becomes reality.
And, yes, even Hand coach and committee member Steve Filippone conceded that a potential Tech schools division was a more attainable goal in the near future. “I know we’re not going to get both,” he told Ned.
But they’re thinking about it.
Be still your beating hearts, football fans.
The idea is that that a BCS-styled (ugh) rankings system using the polls and computer rankings, would select the top eight programs that year and automatically place them into the open division for the state championship.
Teams could not opt out of playing for the open/overall title.
While an open division is — in theory — an awesome prospect and would settle once and for all the annual No. 1 debate, there are few criticisms.
First, the selection process might be flawed from the start. You can create all the computer and ranking models that you want, but someone’s going to be upset over its methodology. Anyone who followed college football’s BCS rankings will certainly understand.
Second, an open division would render the four other state championships utterly meaningless. Who would care about the Open Division castaways? What would that title mean?
But Filippone addressed those criticisms in Ned’s story:
“The arguments against the proposal is that picking the top eight teams is subjective,” Filippone said. “I don’t know if that’s legitimate.
“The other is it would water down the four divisional championships. My answer to that is a young football player in the state of Connecticut can say that he’s a state champion and is going to feel very proud of that. When he’s getting dressed for that game, he isn’t thinking, ‘Oh, well, Xavier (of Middletown) is playing in the open division, they’re in our division, and we’d get our butts kicked if we played them. He’s not thinking about that. He’s thinking of playing for a state championship.”
Maybe.
But I’d also argue as much as players might believe that, there will be an overwhelming contingent of fans, media folk and peers who’ll say: “Nobody cares, kid. Get lost.”
Another argument working for Filippone is that, in the debate over who’s No. 1, one or two divisions are usually disregarded anyway. What’s one or two more divisions?
Also, consider that winning championships are the end-all, be-all for all high school football coaches. The less titles they win with what they may believe are legitimate teams, the more antsy they get.
In conversations I’ve had, there already has been grumblings among a few coaches that four divisions aren’t enough to satisfy the overwhelming desire to have better odds at winning a tittle — if for nothing else but the sake of their careers. The pressure on some of these guys to win championships is overwhelming.
Now that many of them might annually be stuck an open division, would there be a desire to (ahem) tank a game or relinquish style points to avoid it if they believe their teams don’t have a legit shot at winning an open title?
We allegedly saw signs of such shenanigans when the CIAC created its infamous divisional structure in boys basketball a few years back. That arrangement lasted all of three seasons from 2004-2006. It might be a little harder to swing in football, but don’t rule it out. Besides, it’s not that hard to influence the outcome of a football game.
Yea, so there are some issues to debate. We’re a long way off from figuring this out.
But deep within the monotonous and uneventful offseason (hardly), it’s at least great discussion.
One quick question: Is the State Championship for the Media, Fans and Coaches or is it for the players? Something to consider.
SPB…Any word on Torrington’s opening? They had their (4) finalist interviews yesterday…
I just don’t see it flying. I think it does devalue the individual titles, which is the wrong direction IMHO.
I sortive feel bad for the tech schools, and that seems like a logical thing to have a tech school title….but aren’t they all in a division already anyway? Doesn’t that sortive work itself out during the season? Does anyone feel bad for me when I pay $200 an hour for a plumber or electrician? Where is my trophy?
Is the “open division” concept really that much more extreme than say playing 2 more games pitting the 4 title winners v. one another?
In the end, considering recent history, are we really talking about anything more than Ansonia v. the LL or L champ?
@JohnnyRibbs – you hit on something there. We can squabble over the L and LL champ. But for the most part, an open division is (once again) merely to settle the age-old Ansonia debate.
@NVLGuy – Haven’t been keeping tabs on Torrington. I’ve heard it’s close.
To comment #1: At first glance, it seems ridiculous to suggest that hs football is for the media, fans, and coaches just as much as it is for the players. But in fact, it’s true. I know it is a romantic, Matt Christopher book notion that this is all about young men’s love of a game and the bond with teammmates and lasting memories and all that crap, but in the real world this sport is important to many people and most of them are not the players.
For god sake, this is an enitre blog devoted to high school football. I am sure the readership is more evenly split, but most of the posts are written by non-players.
Very interesting that Filippone pulled out one the greatest argument techniques in the book: exposing your opponent’s best argument in the hopes of marginalizing it. Good posters on this blog do it all the time. Meaning, his story about the LL player dressing for the title game and not thinking about Xavier in the Open division.
In some sense, he is correct. If this were to pass, the players and coaches in the non-Open division playoffs will be focused on the task at hand because they have no other choice but to focus on it. And yes, if the choice is between winning your class title or winning nothing, then the choice is easy. Teams usually want to win rather than lose.
But the attitude that Filippone hints at is exactly the attitude that fans and media (though they will be polite in their writing, these are just KIDS!!!! after all) will have on the matter. The other divisions will become what the Orange, Sugar, and Fiesta Bowl are currently but without the swag bag for the players. Something fun, but ultimately a lesser diversion from the real prize.
If anything, it would require fans to completely change their thinking on what a successful season meant. If a program made the Open Division three years in a row but never won it, while another program won two class titles in the same span, which team had the better three year run?
@Rob – I’m totally in agreement with you.
Marinelli also thinks the 50 point rule is a good idea. Boo this man!!!!
Winning a LL or L title, without the respective best LL or L teams playing in those playoffs, would be like kissing your sister. Ask folks in NJ how much respect the public school playoffs get … second class at best. IMO an open division would be a mistake. Would rather see the regular season shrink by a couple of games, combine L and LL, then expand the playoffs … way more competitive and fun. We have too many meaningless regular season mis-match games. Also, invite any M or S team to “elect” at the beginning of each year to play up to the L/LL level if they choose. But if they stay M or S, there would be no shot at winning the true state championship. They would have to “play up or shut up”.
Play all three championship games at Arute Field on a Saturday … with S in the morning, M at high noon and the grand-daddy under the lights. To me, that would be dynamite.
What about all the catholic schools play in there own open division. They recruit players from well outside of their towns. Sounds open to me. Many states do this, and so do some bigger cities. That could be the OPEN division. The arrogance of the Hand coach is quite amusing. Play up in the LL Division if you want the bigger piece of the pie. As for the Coop schools, leave them alone “central committee”, they play their games, usually in a division higher than they should due to combining the schools populations. I’m sure the co-ops are concerned of your well being. You sound like George Halas trying to slap down Lamar Hunt.
The Division ONE basketball tournaments were the most exciting events the C.I.A.C.has ever held in any sport!Unfortunately the other divisions were not too exciting-not well attended and definitely second class basketball.
@JB, I’m from NJ and my high school won multiple state championsips and we got plenty of respect. I don’t think your comparison makes sense. The way CT is set up, I do think the “class” state championships would be diluted with an Open division. I really liked the idea of th tournament of champions. There is like a 3 week gap from when winter sports end and spring sports begin reporting to practice, and that is if you make the playoffs and have some success. Why not just push the winter season back 2 weeks and add the tournament of champions games in. You can either randomly seed the 4 or go by power points to determine seeding. That would draw so much buzz, lots of money would be made (wink wink CIAC) and a true champ can be crowned and this will not dilute “class” championships. This exact format is what they do in NJ for the team states and if you didn’t win the tourney of champions it never took away from winning state “group” (same as ct’s classes) title.
Great idea.I have been proposing an open division for about 10 years.8 more teams get the Post Season feeling.Class division Championship games will take a minimal hit for attendence.Teams will not have to declare open so if they feel they can not compete against the “Big Boys” then they can choose not to go open.Finally a team in S can have a shot If Ansonia declares open.SPB if you have any pull,I would love to sit in on these discusssions.
if Ansonia doesn’t declare then do they just not do it?
Couldn’t this also be solved by Hand and Ansonia (or whoever the flavor of the year is and Ansonia) play a damn regular season game?
Insert guy from Ansonia saying they reach out and no one will play them. Assuming that is true, the guys who need to schedule Ansonia (NC/Hand) are on the damn committee.
Make that happen. Give all the future HVAC guys a trophy for showing up and revert back to L, M and S. done. and done.
mr. ribbs – That will never happen in today’s point system. There is no room for voluntary throat slitting during the regular season … that would just open the flood gate doors wider to the “pretenders”.
IMO, key is to reduce the regular season meaningless games we suffer and expand the playoff season so that programs can meet in a playoff system designed to find the best teams. Polls should not determine these match-ups – the state media is too regionally biased. We should emulate the FBS not the BCS … don’t listen to that Hand b.s. they have the NH Register in their hip pocket. Let the best team earn a championship on the gridiron in a 4-5 game playoff meat grinder. Some elite “open” division system will just be rigged – every year will be the same boring result with no incentive for the lesser programs to dream big and have something to prove.
Jersey Boy hit the nail square…..No discussion….Don’t touch anything …..just add 1 more week of Football for the top 4 teams. or the 4 winners of each division…Let them iron it out on the field of play. It’s only 1 more week for 2 more games…(actually 3) 1 plays 4 on Tuesday while 3 plays 2 on the same day…Then the 2 winners can play for the real CT championship an Fri or Sat evening..Imagine that gate……After all, isn’t that what this joke CIAC is all about….SHOW ME THE MONEY….what a laughing stock bd of governorship…anyways, this is the only way to settle the #1 debate….It’s just that damn simple…….
Johnny Ribbs and all: The way I read the proposed system, there would be no opting in or opting out of the Open Division. You don’t decide you want to move up before the season.
At the end of the regular season, the “best” 8 teams are chosen to play in the Open Division. This selection would be based on some combination of the media poll, the coaches’ poll, and a power/computer ranking system.
After the Elite 8 are chosen, the L, M, and S fields would be filled out with the remaining teams based on playoff points.
Wow – m and JB looks like alot of serious concern about what Filippone and Hand are up to!
If you have ever met Coach Filippone, you know that he does not look down on other programs and have an arrogance issue. Speak to other coaches and players who he seeks out after the game.
JB, I don’t see why you continue to complain about the NH Register poll. They were spot on keeping Staples out of the #1 spot that you complained about all year. Maybe those voting do know something about football when they jumped Hand up to #1 last year. And in 2011, Hand was not even ranked starting the year, finished in the #2 spot, so big bias there, right?
If there is going to be an open playoff, which I really do not think is needed in HS sports, I would prefer a +1 type set up. This would be difficult because most HS in state have big rivalry T-Day games they do not want to lose the history and gate from. Unless you push back winter sports start dates, I do not see how any more games could be added. I do think it would be tough for a Class S or M to run a 3 game in 2 weeks gauntlet just due to the size of most of their rosters.
I am in favor of a tech league championship. It would be allow some deserving schools in the playoffs and give the tech schools a level playng field. Its a win-win.
The problem with some people on this blog – they see Filippone, as a successful coach, one of the most successful in CT history and lots of you are bitter about others having success.
Filippone, Marinelli, Petrocio, Marinan, Buonocore to name a few, are actively involved as ambassador’s for Connecticut football. That’s a pretty great lineup of successful coaches leading us into the future. And just like politics, there are always sides to be taken.
Would it water the other divisions down? Does a Tech school have a shot to win a State Championship or even get by the first round in the Class L and Class LL pools? I would like to know if a Tech school has ever won a game in the Class L, Class LL, even Class M (and not a win against another tech)
This year – Farmington would have gotten in over Platt Tech, I know Conventry Tech snuck in a few years a go, there is always 1 tech school that keeps a legitmate contender out. What this does is not make first round quarter final games a joke… you’ll have 4 tough, have-to-see games.
Get them in their own division… Give legitimate contenders a chance to get in the dance.
The NH register vote is like 26 sports writers … 4 voters work for the NHR alone and only about 5 from the entire southern part of the state … and I have never seen one of those NHR guys at an FCIAC game in my life. They are probably good football people, but their paycheck comes about from generating readership in their coverage area. Bias is built into that poll, like every other poll. Thats just the business. How about we replace the NH Register poll with the MSG Varsity ranking for this “open” division? Ask Steve how that would work for him?
The polls are fun, but I don’t think it works very well for a state playoff system. The better model is Ohio … its basically a computer ranking based upon strength of schedule with teams categorized. No full points for beating up on a bunch of S/M level teams and no voter bias based upon what media coverage region teams reside in. And then expand the number of teams that make the playoffs … get this debate on the field where it belongs.
But this discussion about a better playoff system is all moot … no one is giving up their Turkey Day games (and FCIAC titles) to make that happen. But creating some elite “open” division is a terrible idea … it would just reduce overall competition and dilute the LL and L playoffs to basically exhibition games.
By the way, when is the SCC going to hold a championship game? Oh, right, it will be the “open” division of the new state playoff system. :)
@JB – There are more “NHR” guys than you think. Don’t forget their other properties, which total eight voters (Middletown Press, Shoreline Sports, Elm City Newspapers in addition to NHR). In reality, JRC comprises about a third of their poll. When you factor in guys who report mainly from New Haven County (adding George DeMaio and Noah Finz and Don Boyle of Sporting News CT), that total jumps to 11 of 25.
Sean, it’s snowing and I’m bored. If the Open 8 were in effect last year, give us your best guess at who they would have been, with seeds please.
Thanks, SPB. It must be tough sending in your vote every week knowing the deck is stacked like that.
@JB – No. I just loudly let them know.
@Rob – Idk, how does this look?
1. Hand 10-0
2. Staples 9-0
3. Windsor 9-0
4. Ansonia 10-0
5. Southington 10-0
6. Xavier 9-1
7. Newtown 10-0
8. NFA 10-0
Ansonia was No. 3 in both polls, but I knocked them back behind Windsor just on a hunch about what their power points might be due to all the Class s teams they play.
NFA was in the top 10 rankings, but Newtown was rated just above them (in retrospect, ouch).
Xavier gets in as the No. 6. One loss, but strength of schedule and their higher poll rating helps them out. Maybe they’d creep to No. 5?
That looks about right, but open to some minor shuffling. What does everyone else think?
how is Newtown in they couldnt beat one of those teams
@mr fciac – High poll ranking (they were No. 7 in both), Class LL, undefeated… I don’t recall what they were in the Freeman computer rankings, but even if they were lower, I think they’d still get in based on the above. …besides, who do you think goes in ahead of them? Greenwich? Glastonbury? Avon? North Branford? Also consider NFA wasn’t being ranked, or computed very high either before the playoffs.
Or was that just a troll?
Hypothetically: The 8 Open Division teams could be: Ansonia, St Joes, Hand, Xavier, New Canaan, Staples, Hillhouse, Masuk
@bubba: I’d think it would mostly be unbeaten teams.
That list looks pretty good. Hard to argue it really.
Not sure if the Newtown comment was a troll or not, but they were the undefeated SWC champion. You could make the case that had this list really been compiled before the playoffs started, Newtown would be even higher.
you guys are clowns to think Newtown can compete big deal swc champs
LL school playing s and m schools they wouldst win a game play any of those pole teams period
Windsor, Southington and Newtown likely did not deserve to be in the top 8 … that is like 38%. Not good enough. Glastonbury, Greenwich and maybe about 5 others as good as those 3 teams. Need to expand the playoff to 16 or 32 teams to make an “open” division work. But then you have made the rest of the state playoffs an exhibition …
To deliver the “truest” state champion?
- combine LL and L
- Adjust CAIC points by “strength of schedue” like Ohio did (no polls)
- invite any S or M to “step up or shut up”
- expand the playoff teams to 16
- pray for good weather to support game 15!!!
Playing a SCC title game and not count it towards the CIAC Playoffs ,like all conference title games,is useless.You can try demean or criticize the SCC as much as you want JB but the majority of the best/competitive week in week out games are played in the SCC.No other conference comes close.Their Title games are played week #1-#10 with a few cupcakes thrown in.
No one arguing SCC is strongest conference most years but that doesn’t always mean top teams are there alone. Greenwich and Staples went farther in LL than anyone in SCC except Xavier. L was weak this past year except Hand. West Haven was the other litmus test for the FCIAC and Staples dispatched them by 40 basically like a McMahon (500ish team in the FCIAC). So beyond Xavier and Hand, the SCC was not a “#1-#10″ type conference. Not really much better than the FCIAC below Greenwich and Staples.
Can’t wait for the challenge games this year to test that “#1-#10″ bluster …
Why does everyone forget about North Haven, those kids were awesome, definitely deserved to be in the playoffs in my mind, but that’s what happens when you give yourself an extremely hard regular season and lose to three state champions. Shame too, they could have easily been in the L finals.
Also my two cents on this whole open thing is that it would ruin the class titles. I’ll use 2011 as the perfect example. As much as were not suppost to, the kids look ahead for games, so towards the latter part of the season we were waiting for our shot at Masuk. State Opens happen and that might not be possible anymore and one of the most exciting games I’ve ever been a part of is non-existant. Plus you don’t really feel like the best in your class unless you beat the best, simple as that.
As for the two extra rounds at the end of the season, good idea in theory, but what about injury and weather. People forget how grueling this game really is, by the end of the year my trainer was keeping me from falling apart with all the tape used (not to say that I or anyone was playing through a serious injury but you get the idea). Add in two more games in a short period of time with a dramatic decrease in temperature, it wont end well for some kids.
I say keep it as is, sure there will always be some debate over who’s the best but that’s part of the fun right?
JB, I like the idea of a strength of schedule points being used and to combine the LL and L. This would hurt the teams that consistently play the S and M teams in order to pad their victories in order to get into the states, which, they typically get blown out.
Also, the SCC is the top league with a close 2nd by the FCIAC. I think if the FCIAC would break up the divisions like SCC, you may then be able to compare the two.
I know it is a ways away, but anybody care to predict some of the leagues this year? From what I know, below is my preseason/winter/spring predictions.
FCIAC – Staples the team to beat with Ridgefield and Greenwich making a run for the top. St. Joes lost too many key players and could even be hurt more if their RB doesn’t come back.
SCC – Hand gets the nod with Prep making a drastic improvement and making the states. Prep has a big line already getting recruited by top D1 schools.
NVL – Ansonia is not even challenged and will blow Masuk out by 5 TDs. Their biggest challenge with be the Yale camp in June/July
SWC – Newtown on top but falling again in the first round of states. No team speed and losing all their starting DBs and WRs. You just cannot replace Hebert
CCC – Southington with a push from Glastonbury.
Eastern – NFA with Outlow being unstoppable. 1st round victory and that is all they have left.
Well, I’d think if they added an open Division to the four playoffs, North Haven — which wasn’t too far off in qualifying for Class L — might have had a shot to get in the revised tourney with Hand and Windsor probably playing up.
And, looking at it, they would have been out by one game. I feel their pain, but short of revising the playoff points, hard to justify a 3-loss, regardless of to whom they lost.
I’m a firm believer in that the football playoffs should be as exclusive as possible while maintaining fairness. Not everybody can or should get in. And I can’t stand when coaches point to the 40 percent winning qualification of other sports to justify why we should have more in football.
Football is different. There are just 10 or 11 games. Every game is and should be that important. Only the strong should survive. This isn’t soccer or basketball.
ALSO: I’m with Peter on the Open. It would ruin Class titles.
SCC Fan – I think this coming year is hard to predict. There are so many good players graduating across the state. I guess that favors the traditionally strong programs with great coaching. They tend to find the right young players to mix in, teach and motivate.
In the FCIAC, I think you could add New Canaan to your list. They achieved more than expected making states this year and have a lot of returners. Not sure about Ridgefield, but they are always up there. In the SCC, where is Xavier in the mix next year?
Mr. Gerson makes some great points. Playing 15 games in a season would be crazy. Guys in high school often play 2 ways and are like Braveheart at the end. With the Turkey Day game in the way of doing something radical about all of this, the current system is the best for the players and fans. Mr. Gerson confirmed that feeling a player needs to have and why an open division won’t work … to take away that motivation and opportunity would be a big mistake. Congratulation on a great HS career and good luck at Yale !
@38 “Greenwich and Staples went farther in LL than anyone in SCC except Xavier”
Very true but teams like Hand{L Title} and Hillhouse {M Title}were not LL . North Haven could have had at least a 50-50 chance with Greenwich.My grip with you is the non CIAC league Title game comment.The SCC plays almost all its top teams against each other every year in regular season play.The FCIAC refuses to schedule a New Canaan-Greenwich or New Canaan-Staples game for example on a regular basis.How could these FCIAC Powers not be scheduled to play ? Too many times these Powerhouses beat up on poor old Bassick or Hardings is my point.
I believe Hand would have been with Masuk in 2011 in a an 8 team open Bracket scenario.
New Canaan is loaded on D this coming year
I agree with Peter G on the Class titles. Part of the fun of football is arguing with others about who did or would do what against another team! We would not have something to compare/grouse about/ ruminate on, etc. Keep the Class titles important. Maybe add the Tech school division, but other than that keep the present set up.