(Yesterday, I sat down with Joshua Starr, Stamford’s Superintendent of Schools. Dr. Starr addressed topics ranging from his budget proposal to teacher accountability to IB. Over the next few days, I’ll roll out stories on the issues he spoke about. Today, we start with one that has become a hot topic in Greenwich: IB.)
Joshua Starr, Stamford’s Superintendent of Schools, believes strongly in the educational value of the International Baccalaureate program. Stamford has implemented IB at the elementary and middle school levels and Starr says he’s looking to expand the program.
“We now have an IB PYP (Primary Years Programme) and two MYPs (Middle Years Programme) and I’m discussing with the board tonight to expand that MYP program,” Starr said yesterday afternoon before last night’s public meeting to discuss the school budget.
“It’s a wonderful program,” Starr said. “We’ve seen positive results with teachers and students, and parents absolutely love it. As the teachers will tell you, it’s just good education.
“It’s our curriculum. It’s just an approach to engaging kids to be more thoughtful and questioners.”
In 1963, the African American writer James Baldwin delivered a speech to New York City teachers that was later printed in the Saturday Review under the title “A Talk to Teachers.” In the speech, Baldwin said that “the paradox of education is precisely this – that as one begins to become conscious one begins to examine the society in which he is being educated.” In his support for IB, Starr made reference to Baldwin. The famous essayist, novelist, and playwright said that ”the purpose of education is to ask questions of the universe and learn to live with those questions.”
“That’s what IB does,” Starr said. “It helps the kids be inquirers.”
IB has sparked debate in Greenwich of late, as Superintendent of Schools Sidney Freund has proposed that the program be expanded to Western Middle School and the 9th and 10th grades at Greenwich High. IB is already in place at two elementary schools in town. While Freund has been touting the program’s successes and the positive impact it has on student learning, some in the community have spoken out against expanding the program. Starr doesn’t buy the arguments against IB.
“The people who don’t recognize the value of [IB] are so divorced from the reality of America in the 21st century and what we need to move forward,” Starr said. “It gravely concerns me that people in power would be opposed to the value of that program. Which doesn’t mean that every parent is going to want it for their kid, but if you look at what it’s doing I can’t see how anybody would argue.”
(Clarification: When Starr referred to those who oppose IB as being “divorced from reality,” he made it clear that he was not speaking about everyone who’s opposed to the program. Starr said “we need to help kids become more aware of international issues and prepared to thrive and lead in a global world,” and noted that his comments were directed toward ”those who oppose it out of xenophobia or who are against it because it’s internationally focused.”)
Those who have spoken out against IB have frequently pointed to two issues as areas of concern: money and the impact IB will have on Advanced Placement. Starr doesn’t consider those to be valid reasons not to implement IB.
“The money is not a big deal at all. It really isn’t very expensive,” he said.
“There are many districts and schools that do both, Starr said, referring to IB and AP coexisting. “You can still do both easily. Why not give kids multiple options. What’s wrong with having multiple high standards both in what you’re teaching (AP) and how you’re teaching it (IB).”
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Rogers International, Joshua Starr. Joshua Starr said: see my comments re: IB in charles costello's blog http://blog.ctnews.com/teachertalk/2011/02/04/stamford-superintendent-a-supporter-of-ib/ [...]
Comment by Tweets that mention Stamford Superintendent a Supporter of IB - Teacher Talk - Connecticut News -- Topsy.com — February 4th, 2011 @ 6:07 pm
Superintendent Starr says, according to Charles Costello:
“The people who don’t recognize the value of [IB] are so divorced from the reality of America in the 21st century and what we need to move forward,” Starr said. “It gravely concerns me that people in power would be opposed to the value of that program. Which doesn’t mean that every parent is going to want it for their kid, but if you look at what it’s doing I can’t see how anybody would argue.”
Really? I suppose that would include some 200 high schools in Connecticut that do not offer IB. By his standard, it is only the three high schools in Connecticut that do offer IB Diploma Programme that are not “divorced from reality”? How ’bout Westchester County, where some three dozen public high schools do not offer IB, compared with two which do, one of which is Freund’s former school district. Does that make sense? The vast majority of those school systems are “divorced from reality”? They certainly sport far better academic achievement than does Stamford.
His remarks don’t make sense.
According to Starr, as Costello reports, people who don’t implement the program “don’t recognize the value of IB”? Does that make sense? Look at all the high-performing high schools in Westchester County that do not: Ardsley, Scarsdale, and others. In fact, in that county that is virtually devoid of IB, it has five high schools that exceed 1200 on SAT; not a single Connecticut public school matches that mark, though the state’s population is five times larger than Westchester.
Those remarks are taken out of context, or are rather odd.
But perhaps, Charles, you could tell us why, when the average scores on Greenwich High School’s AP tests has fallen sharply the past two years, and enrollment in AP English has dropped over 30%, you would believe that performance would be better in IB than it has in AP? Could you give us your explanation of that? Is IB a magic bullet for declining AP scores?
Comment by Sean — February 4th, 2011 @ 8:11 pm
While I respect Mr. Starr in many respects, his comments about those who do not support IB because it may not be rigorous enough, for example, is surprising for someone who thinks IB fosters open-mindedness. A Superintendent of Schools actually to say that those who do not want IB for their children as being “so divorced from the reality of America in the 21st century and what we need to move forward” demonstrate quite clearly the problem with IB thinking” is stridently small-minded. This “my way or the highway” approach is exactly that which makes people question IB. There is no one way to teach children well. Beyond that, IB has a mixed track record as far as academic results are concerned. Anecdotal reports are not the empirical data that any school district can responsibly use to make such an important decision. IB is a money-making outfit, with 20% planned market growth annually, with stringent and expensive mandated professional training. Mr. Starr can make decisions about his own school district, and Greenwich in turn can make its own decisions.
Comment by Marianna — February 4th, 2011 @ 10:12 pm
First, in no way is Dr. Starr “small-minded” as you suggest. The guy represents what a superintendent should be. He’s informed, he listens, and he makes decisions based on what’s best for the schools. I came away from my interview with him thoroughly impressed with his intelligence and sincerity.
Some other thoughts on your comments:
If “there is no one way to teach children well” as you say, then why not incorporate IB into the mix?
Furthermore, we need to start taking a close look at schools that have implemented IB and found success with the program. Ask the students and teachers what they think. They’re the ones who can give you the honest answers. And for those against IB, perhaps not the answers you want to hear.
IB works. If it didn’t, districts and superintendents wouldn’t be trying to introduce the program, and in districts like Stamford and Greenwich, expand it. Right?
What’s wrong with an international program that teaches students to be critical thinkers?
Comment by Charles Costello — February 5th, 2011 @ 6:03 am
Charles, you say that IB “teaches students to be critical thinkers.” Are you telling us that you have not been teaching your students to be “critical thinkers” all these years? That you need IB to get you to do that?
You say that “IB works,” and that “if it didn’t, districts and superintendents wouldn’t be trying to introduce the program.” Yet once again, you’ve conveniently ignored the many points made above. Let’s recall that though some districts are attempting to implement IB, most are not. Let’s consider the facts: there are some 150 public high schools in Connecticut, and several dozen more private schools. Yet just three of them offer the IB Diploma Programme. If “IB works,” as you suggest, then why are so few schools attempting to implement it? In fact, nationwide, more than 20 times as many high schools offer AP as offer IB. And why, if “IB works,” and presumably, according to your logic, it works better than what is in place now, is it that so many of the highest performing school districts do not use it?
Further, please do, indeed, take a “close look” at those schools that have implemented it, and compare those schools with those that are AP schools. There are a number of parents in IB schools who have opted out of it, or are unhappy with it. Woodson High School in Northern Virginia attempted to implement it and found that parents were so adamantly opposed that the school district was forced to back down and stay with AP. Woodson is one of the nation’s top public high schools. South Lakes High School in Fairfax County Virginia experienced a net outflow of students when that school switched over to being an IB school exclusively. Indeed, in Fairfax in Virginia and Montgomery County Maryland, both of which operate IB high schools, still they operate at least twice as many AP high schools as IB schools. Clearly the demand remains far higher for the AP curriculum than for IB.
Not only do we need to take a look at schools that have experienced success with IB, but also at those that have decided not to implement it, which includes all but two of the school districts in neighboring Westchester County, as well as well-regarded private schools in our town and elsewhere which have likewise decided that it’s not for them: Brunswick, Greenwich Academy, Sacred Heart. Also in Connecticut, Choate Rosemary Hall examined both AP and IB, and decided after careful deliberation to offer only AP. So, Charles, we should be listening to all sides, even if those who are pro-IB might not like the answers they hear.
But another reason to look critically at this is the cost, Charles. IB is widely regarded as an expensive program. In Fairfax Count, the 12th largest school district in the country, it was discovered that IB costs more than six times more to administer than AP on a per student basis. So cost is certainly a factor in this debate. And in these difficult economic times when school budgets are being restricted, and needed programs and building are being put off or canceled, we need to be prudent with taxpayer funds.
We also have to come to grips with why we are looking at IB in the first place. What deficiencies is it meant to rectify? Is our curriculum at the high school level so poor that there is no other way to improve quality other than paying the IB Organization for their curriculum (and they do make a point of saying that it is a “curriculum”)? Are our teachers and administrators incapable of creating curricula that teach students to “inquire”? To be “critical thinkers”? Is the push for IB an admission that our current level of teaching is distinctly lacking?
Further, Charles, how do you square your oft-expressed intense feelings that GHS should put fewer students into AP and honors-level classes with your new advocacy for what is billed as a rigorous curriculum on a par with AP?
One more point: AP and IB almost never “co-exist.” Invariably, AP is eliminated in favor of IB. And in school districts that offer both, schools are either one or the other. In Greenwich, Superintendent Freund made clear to the BOE in November that he would cancel AP courses as IB Diploma courses were introduced. Later he hedged, stating that he did not know the “implications” for AP of the introduction of IB at the high school. And it is precisely those “implications” that the community needs to understand fully. Because if IB is introduced, it will result in the elimination of choice, not greater choice.
And finally, regarding the cost factor, how does Superintendent Starr square his comments that the cost of IB “is not a big deal at all” with his recent budget that slashes the number of teachers for the most needful and vulnerable students in the shool system- those requiring special education? How many special ed teachers could be retained if Stamford were not to go ahead with paying for IB?
Comment by Sean — February 5th, 2011 @ 11:23 am
You ask “why not incorporate IB into the mix?” Because it is not proven to be effective, and it displaces all other instruction that has been effective, if taught well, of course.
“Ask the students and teachers what they think. They’re the ones who can give you the honest answers.” Or just lobby further. Teachers have told us what they think. We have never heard the other point of view: what are the problems with IB. Let’s encourage real “critical thinking”. IB is a way to diminish teacher accountability with its inordinate emphasis on predetermined “values” as opposed to core academics. Maybe that is what is desired.
“IB works. If it didn’t, districts and superintendents wouldn’t be trying to introduce the program, and in districts like Stamford and Greenwich, expand it. Right?” Wrong. That kind of uncritical thinking is precisely what the IBO is counting on. If another district has done it, why not your district. They must have investigated it, and found it to be satisfactory. That is exactly the kind of thinking that the worst business schemes rely upon. Witness Madoff.
“What’s wrong with an international program that teaches students to be critical thinkers?” Just because it promotes itself as doing that does not mean it actually produces such results. The uncritical support of it provides a full display of why it does not.
Comment by Marianna — February 5th, 2011 @ 12:52 pm
Thank you Charles.
You have clearly insulted the teachers of Greenwich because what you are saying is that after all these years, as of February 2011, the experienced teachers in Greenwich are deficient in in inculcating critical thinking skills in their students, and therefore need the help of the IB. You have bought into Dr. Starr’s criticism of Greenwich teachers that they need the IB because they lack the skills ( quoting James Baldwin) “to ask questions of the universe and live with the answers” ; or per your paraphrase ” teach[es] students to be critical thinkers.”
I have spent a fair amount of time within the hallways of Greenwich High School and the middle schools as a substitute and permanent substitute and have not found Greenwich teachers to be as you described– indeed quite the opposite as to the spirit of inquiry and critical thinking.
So, therefore, in the spirit of critical thinking:
1- Checking the IB web site, there is not a single District that I could find ( in Connecticut, Massachusetts, New York,Illinois) that has instituted the IB at both the High School level and also at the Elementary/Middle School level. It is one or the other. Even if I were a supporter of the IB, in the abstract, this discrepancy is jarring. Why is that?
2- I am more than willing to assume that Dr. Freund and Dr. Starr are competent educational leaders, but critical thinking requires one to ask the question as to why equally competent educational leaders throughout the State and the country have seen fit to ignore the IB. Are these educational leaders simply incompetent? Surely you believe in democracy, and there are more votes against you than there are for you. This is not, of course, a popularity contest, but when so many are aligned against you, a critical thinker would pause for reflection.
3- If those schools that have adopted the IB have found great success with it, as you clearly want us to believe, but without providing any proof, then why haven’t other school districts,presumably rational, not moved in this direction? Are these other school districts’ leaders not engaged in critical thinking? I would presume that they are looking at their neighboring districts who have adopted the IB and found, for whatever reason, there are issues/problems and that the transition is not worth it. Thus your statement that “We need to start taking a close look at schools that have implemented IB and found success with the program” is,without more, wishful thinking. Surely if there are such successes, Dr.Freund and Dr. Starr would have already brought them to our attention as being relevant to the Greenwich ( and Stamford) experience. It is telling,IMHO, that they haven’t.
In the end, please do not take this as my opinion in favor or against the IB program; only that you seem to have shut your eyes to the fact that there is, of yet, very little support presented for the direction proposed for the Greenwich schools. Scottish juries are allowed a third choice, in addition to “innocent” and “guilty”, and that is “not proven.” This third choice seems more than reasonable under the circumstances.
p.s. I always have a good feeling when someone introduces James Baldwin into the discussion. To my mind he is one of our great writers/thinkers/social commentators. He was very demanding in his emphasis on critical thinking, and the use of facts to dispel the myths that the American people believe unthinkingly, because the search for the truth is inevitably messy and inconvenient. I would not be sure he would approve of Dr. Starr’s use of his words in the referenced context; but, to be clear, that is a statement of my personal opinion ( and not fact).
Comment by Bernard Schneider — February 5th, 2011 @ 12:52 pm
There are real intelligent people – educators – deciding to implement IB. This is after thorough research, thought, planning, and a whole lot of school experience and expertise.
“Uncritical”? I don’t get what you mean by that.
Comment by Charles Costello — February 5th, 2011 @ 3:39 pm
Don’t distort what I said.
My primary goal is to teach my students how to be critical thinkers. It’s what I do every day when I have my students read, discuss, and write about literature. I take great pride in teaching and growing critical thinking skills. My primary responsibility as an English teacher is to teach critical reading, thinking, writing, and discussion skills.
I credit my colleagues at Greenwich High School for doing the same.
Did I make myself clear?
Comment by Charles Costello — February 5th, 2011 @ 3:46 pm
The discussion before the BoE, on this blog and for the town is the MYP program at WMS and possibly in 9 and 10th grade. Why is Sean constantly harping on the Diploma program? We aren’t there yet. it would be incredibly helpful if people can focus on the program parents and staff want at WMS.
If IB displaces all other types of instruction, how come we haven’t seen that at ISD and why is ISD successful?
Is it just me or does Marianna hold everyone who doesn’t agree with her in contempt?
Comment by GHS grad — February 5th, 2011 @ 4:35 pm
Yes, Charles, you’ve made yourself clear: “every day” you teach your students “critical thinking skills.” Now please tell us why, if you are already teaching your students to think critically, you believe you need an expensive new international curriculum to get students to “think critically”?
Why should the people of Greenwich pay hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to introduce this curriculum when you’re already doing what it is supposed to do? That will most likely result in the elimination of the AP program? That will cost perhaps six times more per student than AP, and especially when money is tight? That is almost never utilized by strong suburban school districts, not to mention good private schools?
Why?
Comment by Sean — February 5th, 2011 @ 4:59 pm
“The discussion before the BoE, on this blog and for the town is the MYP program at WMS and possibly in 9 and 10th grade. Why is Sean constantly harping on the Diploma program? We aren’t there yet. it would be incredibly helpful if people can focus on the program parents and staff want at WMS.
If IB displaces all other types of instruction, how come we haven’t seen that at ISD and why is ISD successful?”
Great job, GHS grad.
Comment by Charles Costello — February 5th, 2011 @ 6:46 pm
First, Charles, let me point out that you have declined to answer directly the questions put to you. I’m sure that we would all be very interested in reading your considered responses.
But”GHS grad” raises a critically important question: Why should we be looking so carefully at the ramifications of the Diploma Programme (DP) when “we aren’t there yet”?
First, Superintendent Freund and BOE Chairman Anderson have both made it very clear that they want to implement the DP at GHS. Chairman Anderson has called it “a natural progression,” Superintendent Freund has repeatedly stated his intentions to introduce that program, and at a BOE meeting last year, stated that he would cancel AP courses as he introduced IB DP courses. So it makes little sense to consider only the MYP when we know full well that the Diploma Programme will follow on shortly after MYP. Why pretend as though the IB program will stop after 9th and 10th grades, when we know that the intention is to continue it to 12th grade?
Second, it is odd, to say the least, that the superintendent is even bothering to try to introduce the MYP at GHS at all. When he was superintendent at Dobbs Ferry he never attempted to implement MYP there; instead, he introduced the DP only. And that is the norm with IB, if one researches its history at other high schools. Indeed, there are 89 high schools in New England, New York, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania that offer the IB Diploma Programme; yet just 10 of those 89 schools also offer the MYP. In other words, most high schools that look to IB never even consider MYP.
So why is the administration trying to introduce MYP here, but attempting very hard to keep people from considering the Diploma Programme? One could surmise that this is all about creating a fait acomplis for the community. If MYP is approved, the district will proceed immediately with registration procedures and the training of scores of GHS teachers, the expenditures of literally hundreds of thousands of dollars for MYP courses, and will have made a very sizable investment in IB even before the DP is brought up for consideration. Furthermore, Superintendent Freund, without any explicit BOE authorization, has already embarked on the training of teachers in two other middle schools in the district, in addition to Western Middle School. That, too, seems calculated to bypass normal BOE procedures regarding budgetary approvals, as well as to skirt required consideration and approval as mandated by the state for the introduction of new curricula. Indeed, this represents a major departure from the deliberate and careful procedures the BOE followed when embarking on the implementation of IB at Dundee a decade ago. If all of this training is undertaken and major cash expenditures are made, then it will be virtually impossible to refuse to implement the final part of the IB puzzle: the Diploma Programme at Greenwich High School, whether or not it is desirable, whether or not a majority of the town actually wants it, and irrespective of its impact on the school’s existing AP program.
It is clear that the Diploma Programme is IB’s most important curriculum, as well as its most expensive, and the one that is featured in the largest number by far of IB schools in the United States. Given both the chairman’s and the superintendent’s expressed interest in implementing that program, which, added to the training already underway at the three middle schools, would mean that virtually the entire district would become dependent on the IB curricula from beginning to end, it would be irresponsible not to take the time now to consider exactly where this major roll-out of IB would take the district, and how it would affect many other programs, including the AP program, the middle school ALP program, as well as GHS’s existing array of elective programs. Why pretend as though the DP is not coming when we can be certain that it will have a major affect on the entire school system?
But let’s take your second point first and ask if IB is truly “successful” at Dundee? The data from the GPS website suggest that the results are mixed. Dundee students rank in the middle of GPS elementary students in math and science, and in the upper group in reading and writing, but usually behind the non-IB schools Old Greenwich and Riverside. Some parents feel it is a very good program; some others have found it lacking. It is important to consider why it is only the sentiments of those parents at Dundee who support the program are being considered, while those of parents in non-IB schools are being ignored? Clearly more parents have begun to write to the local press raising serious doubts about IB’s more extensive roll-out. And as I pointed out above, there are examples elsewhere where parents have been very unhappy with the local administration’s decision to introduce IB.
One should also consider the fact that cost for IB is quite high. As a matter of fact, Dr. Freund’s former school district of Dobbs Ferry is currently wrestling with the high costs of its IB program, and is considering ways in which to shift more of the costs onto the shoulders of parents of students taking IB courses there. Implementing IB at various levels in Greenwich will entail major expenses here as well. Are we certain that we don’t want to use those funds for other purposes? Have we taken the time to examine whether IB really is “successful” as claimed? The numbers for Dundee suggest that it is not the cure-all that it’s hype is suggesting.
GHS grad’s last point deals with “other types of instruction” and their possible displacement. It might interest middle school parents to know that IB requires that a MYP middle school not utilize any tracking of students by ability of any sort. Nor, for that matter, is it supposed to be used in PYP schools either. Dundee, however, has been continuing with its ALP program in violation of that IB stipulation. It is not clear whether IB Organization will permit ALP to continue in the middle schools. That is a key question that has yet to be investigated. But I should think that ALP parents would be keenly interested in the answers.
And with regards to the displacement of other types of instruction, one might well ask whether, given the fact that Dundee students’ academic performance appears mixed, if the district’s non-IB curricula and teaching methods aren’t superior to IB?
But to Charles’ point: “..There are real intelligent people…deciding to implement IB…after thorough research, thought, planning, and a whole lot of school experience and expertise.”
Actually, as I’ve pointed out before, most schools are not implementing IB. There are only three IB high schools in all of Connecticut, and just 89 in the Northeast. So, unless Charles feels that those who do not decide to implement IB are ipso facto, not “real intelligent people,” then one would have to question why so many intelligent people- educators- are deciding not to go with IB?
But Charles brings up a critical issue: He points out that there are some school systems that do implement IB, but usually only “after thorough research, thought, planning…” And there’s the rub. The BOE and Superintendent Freund are attempting to push IB into Greenwich High School with virtually no serious discussion, without “thorough research,” with little thought to the consequences, or serious planning. We don’t even know if IB will result in the elimination of existing honors courses in 9th and 10th grades, or possibly some AP courses that are offered in 10th grade. We don’t know for sure if the ALP program will be affected, and how deeply. Indeed, there is a review now going on regarding ALP, yet its conclusions could be completely changed depending on the decision regarding IB.
Comment by Sean — February 5th, 2011 @ 7:35 pm
About IB, Starr and Stamford.
Stamford has one elementary school (Rogers)that implemented IB years ago and was very successful. Gradually their test scores rose to the same level as Westover Magnet(touted the best ES in Stamford). Even though Rogers had a 70% minority population vs. Westovers 30%. So very dedicated and involved parents, who fought to implement IB, made Rogers a huge success.
A couple of years ago they implemented IB at Rippowam Middle School. Part of Rippowam is IB and part is a traditional district school. Looking at the Stamford BOE meeting minutes you can read between the lines that the two systems don’t seem to mix that well. Or maybe the two systems created to much uncertainty and “strife”.
Anyways, Starr’s new pet project (after redistricting and middle school reform) is to change Rippowam into an all IB Magnet school over the next years. Which means, more power to the BOE to decide which school students will attend (all in the name of socio-economic balance), more busing costs, and redistricting the current Rippowam students to other schools.
Starr’s popularity has been waning in the last years. Most of the BOE that hired him has been voted out during the last two elections. Especially his middle school reform has been very questionable and motivated a lot of parents to vote for candidates that are highly critical of it (and him). Starr is eloquent (even though his statements are not always correct) and has great PowerPoint presentation skills. But I don’t believe our school district improved under him. A lot of upper and middle class parents (especially of 5th graders) seem to want to move out of Stamford or are contemplating private schools (which is what we opted to do).
Comment by Facts — February 5th, 2011 @ 8:01 pm
“If IB displaces all other types of instruction, how come we haven’t seen that at ISD and why is ISD successful?” IB has displaced other curricula at Dundee. In fact, IBO requires that an entire building must be IB at the PYP level. The growth scores of Dundee students are not statistically better. Again, empirical data needs to be evaluated. “Successful” does not just mean it is “liked.”
AT PYP level, IBO’s position is that “ability grouping” with pullout services is inconsistent with IB. IBO believes in “mixed abilities” grouping for teaching. It is unclear how ALP is still in place at Dundee, so the question is whether the intention is to phase out ALP so as to vertically integrate the entire school system with IB program.
The more important issue is that IB has repeatedly displaced AP in other school districts, for many reasons. How and why is something that needs to really be grappled with.
What I mean by critical thinking is considering the upside and downside of alternative models of curriculum. Mr. Starr’s comment about those who question IB as being “divorced from reality” is contemptuous. The hoi polloi just don’t get it and are so 20th century? What if it was the other way around?
Comment by Marianna — February 5th, 2011 @ 11:57 pm
Marianna and Sean,
Education needs to be about the whole child…Do you both have children attending the public schools? I have three children in the GPS and I want my children to learn about compassion, how to work with others, understand that everyone has a value. I want them to learn how to think…when they come across a question on a test I want them to be able to think about the answer not just spit it out.
The IB is non-profit. It is a program not a curriculum. IB offers structures by which we can organize our curriculum so that students can understand and make connections between what they are learning and how it applies to our world.
The mission statement for IB is
“The International Baccalaureate® (IB) aims to develop inquiring, knowledgeable and caring young people who help to create a better and more peaceful world through intercultural understanding and respect.”
It seems to me that the above mission statement is what we as adults show be striving for and what better way than through our children. Our town is made up of diverse populations with such differing opportunities being offered to our children…..The children in this town are the best investment….go forward with MISA….train our teachers…(if not in IB it would be in something else)…Just stop being so negative…..
Comment by Lisa — February 8th, 2011 @ 2:51 pm
Well said, Lisa.
IB is a highly respected program that engages students and teaches critical thinking.
To address another point you made, some people are negative by nature.
I admire how you want the best education for your children, and it’s great that you understand what a true education is.
Keep up the good work!
Comment by Charles Costello — February 8th, 2011 @ 3:06 pm
Excellent comment from Lisa.
Success does not equal CMT scores. Success equals well rounded, critical thinking students with problem solving skills and an understanding of how our world (should) works.
Comment by GHS grad — February 8th, 2011 @ 3:11 pm
You are absolutely right.
Take a look at what they’re now saying in China, pointing to the U.S. as the leader in education because of the value we place on critical thinking, problem solving, and social awareness.
Unfortunately, some people sit at home and look at numbers from test scores and get their talking points from that. They have no understanding of what goes on in our schools.
I’m actually a proponent of standardized tests. I’m also proud to say that I teach my students to be critical thinkers.
In any event, good work GHS grad.
Comment by Charles Costello — February 8th, 2011 @ 3:46 pm
First, Charles, your snotty remark that “some people are negative by nature” is wrong, it is puerile, and has no place in serious discussion about education policy. Stop it, Charles.
But to respond to Lisa, actually I had two children in the Greenwich school system for 14 years, the youngest of whom graduated not long ago. My youngest began in kindergarten and both graduated from GHS.
Next, though you say that “IB is a program, it is not a curriculum,” the IB material on its website repeatedly points out that it is, indeed, a “curriculum.” That is their claim, not mine. I think that the main reason that there has been any attempt to define IB as something other than a “curriculum” is that if it is not a curriculum, the superintendent can implement it without formal BOE approval; if it is a “curriculum,” he’s obligated by state statute to obtain approval. And the entire approach to IB by the administration has been to avoid scrutiny.
Regarding the IB Organization’s status as a non-profit, I don’t see that that is relevant to the question of whether it should be implemented or not in Greenwich. College Board, which administers the SAT tests and AP exams, is also a non-profit. But it is possible that IB will supplant AP. The question is whether we want that or not. Both organizations or major corporations with large annual revenues.
I want the same for my children and for the youth of this community as do you. I, too, would like to see MISA built, good teachers hired, and retained, and properly trained. I would also like to see poor teachers weeded out. I would like to see us hire and retain well qualified science teachers- emphasis on retain. According to the administration, GHS has lost nearly half of its science teachers since 2008. That is a major problem, and one that we need to address whether or not IB is implemented.
Let’s be positive. I want to see major improvements in our school system and the quality of education. But is IB the way to go? Let’s have a full and open discussion about it. Let’s bring in the public and study exactly what it is that IB is supposed to remedy. Let’s have a discussion about how we can improve our curriculum. Let’s find out if IB is what will solve the system’s problems, or will they remain the same? We have seen a decline in our AP pass rates, our SAT scores have dipped, and our science and math scores remain poor at most levels of our school system. Will IB be the silver bullet? What will parents say who find that their children don’t have AP courses to choose, but must go for IB courses that offer less college credit?
Let’s take the time to go over the problems, get input from IB representatives, and ask them questions. Let’s find out if the administration will cancel the AP program. Let’s find out if the town intends to pay for IB test fees, which are substantial. Let’s get the full estimate of all costs associated with what so many school districts say is expensive. If Dobbs Ferry is struggling with the costs, we should understand exactly what this will mean to the bottom line.
Let’s find out from high-performing school districts what they are doing right, whether they are IB or non-IB. Let’s find out if we should emulate non-IB districts, or if IB will be the cure for this school district. So far, no one has raised real questions, and the BOE has made little attempt to find answers. What we see is a concerted attempt to avoid serious discussion, and to rush this through without meaningful input from the community. And that’s wrong.
What we need is a serious, in-depth, methodical analysis with ample time for all the questions to be hashed out and answered to the satisfaction of the community.
That’s not too much to ask.
And Charles, you keep emphasizing that IB teaches critical thinking, yet you have not told us why you think you need that program to teach what you keep telling us you’re already teaching. Care to explain?
Comment by Sean — February 8th, 2011 @ 3:59 pm
“GHS Grad” writes that,
“Success does not equal CMT scores. Success equals well rounded, critical thinking students with problem solving skills and an understanding of how our world (should) works.”
But clearly, if our school district’s scores on the CMT and CAPT tests are low relative not only to our peer school districts, but also compared with many less affluent school districts, rational people would have to raise questions as to whether our children are being taught properly, and whether or not they are learning as much as they should. Let’s keep in mind that these standardized tests measure the students’ ability to read, write, to understand and use math, as well as their knowledge of science. Clearly those skills are fundamentally important to what students do in schools, and how they can move on to learn more complex subjects. And let’s keep in mind that reading, writing, math, and science are most assuredly building blocks for students to think critically, solve problems, and understand the world. Let’s also keep in mind that the administration have told us that these tests are “good tests.”
The question at hand is whether IB will enhance our children’s education, or not. If IB is such a wonderful system, then where are the numbers to prove it? If it is so demonstrably, undeniably superior to any other curriculum that we could implement, and that is in use at other excellent schools in our region, why is it that so few schools have decided to adopt it? We need to hear from schools that have decided not to choose it, as well as from those that have.
Yet so far, we have heard precious little in the way of balance on this matter. This town deserves a careful analysis before taking a major step like this. When Greenwich implemented IB at Dundee, a process was followed that was far more extensive than the one being used to push it into Greenwich High School.
Why the rush?
Comment by Sean — February 8th, 2011 @ 4:16 pm
My husband and I would like to add our thoughts to the discussion of instituting the International Baccalaureate (IB) program in the middle schools and high school of Greenwich. Others have raised concerns about the costs and local control of the IB curriculum. We would like to raise concerns about its quality.
It is one thing to offer the program as one option — among several — at the elementary school level; however it is quite another to introduce it at the vastly more critical stages of middle and high school. While the IB program appears to promote some important values, our experience suggests that it diminishes and even harms the overall academic pursuit.
We are the father and stepmother of three children who have completed the IB program at the International School at Dundee. During their years at ISD, we were frequently dismayed by the quality of their education. We were more dismayed by the habits and attitudes they developed with regard to rigorous academic study. Fortunately, many of the issues that arose at ISD have been subsequently addressed and remedied at EMS and GHS; however, this process was made unnecessarily difficult for us and for the children by their involvement in IB.
At ISD, traditional subjects such as spelling and math were neglected and even pushed aside or cancelled to make time for special group projects or other, “IB values-based” activities. As one representative example, the attached list of spelling words was created at home from (repeated) misspellings made in school assignments during our son’s 5th grade year. We were dismayed to see the simple words he could not spell; however during this period (i) he consistently received above average grades and (ii) no teacher ever noted the misspellings when reviewing, correcting or grading papers because, “We are studying creative writing, not spelling; students learn to spell naturally”.
While it was surprising to us that a fifth grade student could not correctly spell common words, it was baffling these misspellings were not corrected or even highlighted by his teacher since that was “not part of the IB process”. Indeed the teacher noted with surprise in a parent conference that we bothered to circle the misspelled words in our son’s journal.
Unfortunately, similar situations also arose throughout the course of the other children’s work at ISD.
While the program claims to promote important values, the way it is implemented reveals a subtle yet very systematic discounting of accuracy, discipline and academic integrity. On numerous occasions, we have corrected spelling, pronunciation, math procedures or key concepts only to be faced with the statement, “Well, you may do it that way but this is the way I like to do it.” This has come up so often that it is now a family joke, as is the comment (made when things go awry, or basic facts are unknown) “Well, we are ISD graduates, after all”. Such attitudes are not limited to the IB program but they seem to be encouraged by it.
Unfortunately, similar attitudes seem to be pervasive within the ISD community; there is simply a lack of rigor and individual responsibility in the program. Critical thinking may be “explored” but it is not taken seriously. In practice, any shortfalls or errors are justified by whatever IB values seem to be convenient. When an after school rehearsal went far beyond the scheduled end, the adult in charge explained, “Well, we are risk-takers so we cannot help it if we go over the allotted time.” This is certainly not an attitude we would like to instill in our children – not at any age.
We appreciate that among ISD parents, we are unusual in our position as being strongly against the IB program. This is not surprising, since the population is partially self-selecting, as was the original teacher pool.
In expanding the program to middle and high schools, we would urge you to look beyond the enthusiasm of the already converted. We strongly believe it is important to understand clearly not only what may be gained by the IB program but also what is lost. This is particularly true if other coursework or even entire programs are to be pushed aside to make way for IB.
To the extent that the IB curriculum is more than just one option among many, it is critical to understand how these trade-offs are valued by those who have deliberately not chosen that path for their children, as well as those that have, and regretted it.
Comment by Rebecca — February 10th, 2011 @ 7:58 am
As an (important) aside, Mr. Costello was our son’s English teacher in high school. We are big fans. It is not surprising he is an advocate for critical thinking and, in this respect, for the IB program.
We would welcome a curriculum that supports the kind of teaching Mr. Costello practices. In our experience, however, the IB program provides that support through lip service only. We would like to see some facts to the contrary.
Comment by Rebecca — February 10th, 2011 @ 8:09 am
Very interesting thoughts. I think you bring up some very valid concerns.
Your criticisms of IB must be addressed.
Thanks for sharing.
Comment by Charles Costello — February 10th, 2011 @ 9:11 am
Thank you very much for your kind words. I appreciate the support.
Comment by Charles Costello — February 10th, 2011 @ 9:12 am
The spelling issue occurs at most of the elementary schools here and is not limited to IB. Greenwich did not have a good, district wide spelling program for years and many parents across town have (still) complained about spelling and punctuation not being corrected on writing assignments.
I wonder if the teacher blamed IB when the real issue is the district’s expectations and practices concerning spelling?
Comment by GHS grad — February 10th, 2011 @ 1:37 pm
You are right to point this out if this is a deficiency. Spelling and punctuation must be taught and enforced.
You also point to a bigger issue: I don’t think public schools have done a good job teaching grammar. I went through the Catholic school system where grammar is a huge focus each year through the 12th grade. Public schools must begin to embrace grammar instruction.
Another issue: the reliance on computers and technology, which teachers and schools encourage far too much.
Comment by Charles Costello — February 10th, 2011 @ 3:06 pm
Charles, Is Rebecca really Charles-Charles? How do we know you are not supporting yourself- as you seemingly have few advocates. Your colleague, Herb
Comment by Prof. herb — February 10th, 2011 @ 4:28 pm
Spelling may well be a deficiency at all Greenwich schools; we cannot speak to that. Unfortunately, that is just one example of the issues that arose at ISD. Cancelling math classes to work on group projects was another. Our overall concern is that lessons in basic education are diminished in importance within the context of the IB values program.
There are always issues to work on within the context of public education. Even Greenwich has such issues at both the elementary and high school level (we have been very pleased with the middle school programs).
Implicit in many of the discussions around IB is an assertion that it will address these deficiencies in large part, or in whole. Unfortunately, there is no silver bullet. Even if there were – and if the values espoused by IB were the crux of our challenges – the IB program does not deliver. The IB program’s marketing and positioning are compelling in theory, but it does not deliver in practice.
Rather than jumping to adopt a program that merely promises to address our challenges, we should look carefully at facts proving that it does so. This has not been done, despite repeated requests for fact-based information (and this need not be simply test scores).
Perhaps we also should have a broader discussion about the current context: is spelling a systematic weakness of Greenwich schools? Grammar? Other basic education? And how do these priorities compare to those espoused (and actually supported) by IB and other programs already in the schools?
Comment by Rebecca — February 11th, 2011 @ 7:06 am
All valid points. Again, the issues you present must be addressed.
Comment by Charles Costello — February 11th, 2011 @ 8:08 am
Thanks Rebecca for pointing out specific deficiencies with IB or/and the implementation of IB. Most of our friends either love/hate it or are indifferent but can’t really state why.
About the spelling/grammar. We noticed that in the SPS system it varied by teacher which is a shame. One year my 3rd grader had a teacher (last year before retirement) that didn’t believe in teaching at all!!! We call it the lost year.
All our children attend different independent private schools in the area now. I am constantly amazed how much emphasis the teachers put on spelling and grammar. Everything gets corrected down to the last comma or period and missing something has dire consequences for the grade on that particular paper/essay
In regards to the math programs, we do wish that schools at the ES and MS level would offer highly accelerated math at all grades without upper limits. But that is our only “complaint”. Otherwise we are very happy with the schools are children attend now.
Comment by Facts — February 12th, 2011 @ 11:40 am
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
I can tell you that when grading an essay I count the grammar and mechanics just as much – if not more – than the content. This should be standard practice.
Comment by Charles Costello — February 12th, 2011 @ 11:45 am
I do support myself and, yes, I have plenty of advocates.
Comment by Charles Costello — February 18th, 2011 @ 8:27 am
#28
That makes no sense Herb. Rebecca seems to be anti IB (with very good arguments) and Charles is pro IB.
Comment by Facts — February 18th, 2011 @ 4:23 pm
I think “Herb” was commenting on the fact that someone would say something complimentary about me. He finds that hard to believe.
As far as Rebecca’s arguments, you’re right. Like a I said when she made them, her arguments against IB need to be addressed.
FYI, the Greenwich Time has a big story planned for this Sunday that will explain the IB program.
Comment by Charles Costello — February 18th, 2011 @ 5:07 pm
I went to Catholic school as well Charles and I don’t remember grammar being taught in the elementary years. It began in 6th grade. Spelling and an understanding of grammar are developmental skills. Encouraging young students to create and not be afraid to put words on paper should be first and foremost. Editing is the final stage. Again IB is not a curriculum so if the Greenwich Public Schools has a specific spelling program for all schools to use then it would be used.
Comment by Lisa — February 18th, 2011 @ 7:41 pm
Grammar was taught in elementary school, all the way through the 12th grade. That’s the way it should be. Grammar and spelling are essential. These are necessary skills that must be mastered.
Comment by Charles Costello — February 18th, 2011 @ 7:47 pm
No offense Charles but the IB article was a piece of fluff that didn’t explain much of anything, especially the MYP which the Board of Ed is voting on for WMS this Thursday.
Comment by GHS grad — February 20th, 2011 @ 8:35 am
No offense taken. I glanced at the article but I haven’t read it yet. I’ll share my thoughts after I read it.
Comment by Charles Costello — February 20th, 2011 @ 9:18 am
The article did raise some important questions, and began to answer more. In his recent column, Bob Horton asked whether IB actually works or not. The data provided in the Greenwich Time article on standardized tests scores for the IB International School at Dundee suggest that students there do not significantly outperform non-IB elementary schools in the district. So clearly the argument that IB should be adopted district-wide because of its great “success” at Dundee has been called into question by the actual data.
The article also raises questions about the full costs of IB. Greenwich residents might well ask why Dobbs Ferry is struggling with the costs of its program, and why that town’s BOE is contemplating shifting more costs of the program onto individual students and their families.
The article dealt briefly with Woodson High School and its rejection of IB. In fact, parents at Woodson went to war against their administration and the Fairfax County school district, and forced IB out of the school in a very bitter dispute. Greenwich residents would be well advised to find out why it was so controversial there. They might also like to question whether GHS, like the IB schools in Fairfax County, Virginia, will be IB-only or AP-only, or whether the school will keep both AP and IB. Clearly, Dr. Freund has signaled that he intends to cancel the AP program as the diploma programme is introduced.
Some serious issues were raised in the article, too many for our BOE to rush IB to a vote when it has only devoted significant time in a single meeting to the program as a whole. Indeed, the BOE decided not to discuss IB after a few minutes of its last work session, because there was a lot of new information that members wanted to digest. But now they’re supposed to move to a final vote on IB for Greenwich High School? Seems precipitous.
Comment by Sean — February 20th, 2011 @ 10:48 am
Sean, they might vote on MYP at WMS this week. That is all.
Comment by ghs — February 20th, 2011 @ 12:35 pm
I read the article. A lot of what we’ve been reading in the paper for the past few weeks with some new perspectives introduced. It will be very interesting to see how this plays out.
Comment by Charles Costello — February 20th, 2011 @ 5:20 pm
To “ghs,” does that mean that the majority on the board will not offer a motion to introduce the IB MYP at Greenwich High School or at the other two middle schools? Is that what “that is all” means? If so, what happens to the funding for teacher training at Eastern and Central middle schools, and at GHS? By appropriating funds in the current budget request- considerable funds- for a program that has not even been considered, much less approved, that funding certainly looks as though it will be cut out by either the BET or the RTM. It was the extension of IB teacher training to those other schools without informing the BOE, or asking for approval of the IB programs in those schools first, that sparked the controversy to begin with.
Comment by Sean — February 21st, 2011 @ 6:33 am
There has never been any discussion to my recollection about expanding the MYP to CMS or EMS. I have heard Dr. Freund, at a board meeting, state that he and many staff value the staff development and skills that the ib training provides so therefore the trainings were open to staff at other schools. Teachers interested in learning more and using some of the IB methods in their daily practice attended the training even though their schools will not apply to be part of the program. Kudos to them for wanting to advance their knowledge and training. And I was at the board meeting where the training was discussed, Dr Freund said that while priority would be given to Wms staff, it would be open to others interested. That was clearly stated at an official meeting.
THe GHS expansion of the MYP for 9-10 will probably require more discussion but as Dr Freund stated, the board made this a goal on his evaluation so how can anyone on the Board now say he is suddenly bringing up IB at the hs without board knowledge????
Comment by GHS — February 21st, 2011 @ 7:50 am
Simply because Dr. Freund mentions expansion of the MYP on an obscure evaluation that may or may not have been read by the full board doesn’t mean that it is on the table for implementing, or thereby considered approved. Indeed, Dr. Freund was widely quoted upon his arrival in Greenwich as stating that the district was suffering from “initiative fatigue.” The full BOE was never informed formally by Superintendent Freund that he desired to implement the IB MYP at GHS. Indeed, it was only in passing in the course of discussions over the upcoming budget that it was revealed that Dr. Freund had authorized training in IB for GHS teachers last summer. When the reason for that training was questioned, Dr. Freund told the board that they had approved IB for GHS when they approved it for WMS. That was certainly a stretch, because at no time previously had IB been proposed for GHS, no hearings had been held, nor discussions over cost, and no final vote was ever taken. Superintendent Freund had simply used the fact that the MYP was usually considered a five-year program to slip it into GHS without scrutiny. Indeed, later he insisted that there was no need for him to bring it before the BOE for approval at all, since, MYP’s not being a “curriculum,” he could implement it on his own initiative under “differentiation.” Dr. Freund’s declared intentions are quite a different thing, or certainly should be, from a proper proposal to the BOE, which is followed by full and open discussion, public input, an exchange of views, and careful consideration of the alternatives. That never happened.
And let me clarify one thing: it was not the BOE that “made (IB expansion into grades 9 and 10) a goal on (Dr. Freund’s) evaluation.” Dr. Freund himself mentioned that it was something he would like to do. Big distinction.
Though Dr. Freund mentioned IB teacher training as simply good training, it is clear that the IB Organization does not permit just any teachers to receive their training, but they must be affiliated with a school that is in the process of implementing IB. And that is why the superintendent’s actions to permit IB training for teachers in all three middle schools as well as GHS is so troubling. Indeed, the documents filed with IBO by the administration stipulate that the superintendent intends to implement IB in all three middle schools as well as the high school. Yet those documents and intentions were never shared with the full board, and the superintendent has never asked the BOE to introduce IB at those schools, as he should have.
Further, Superintendent Freund has yet to state why Greenwich High School, or the other two middle schools should implement IB. It appears to be a solution in search of a problem. And this town should know whether or not IB at GHS is meant to displace the Advanced Placement program. Though he has stated that the IB Diploma Programme will only be considered “several years” from now, I’d be willing to bet that the BOE will be asked to approve the IB DP within the next year. Dr. Freund clearly stated at the November BOE meeting that he intended to cancel AP courses as IB Diploma courses were introduced. And he has yet to retract those statements. Indeed, it appears that our already underperforming AP program will be replaced by an IB Diploma Programme that is even more restrictive, or as Dr. Freund put it, IB “is not for everyone.”
Is IB meant to turn around our falling reading scores? Our underperforming science curriculum at every level? Since Dr. Freund contends that IB is not a “curriculum,” is it only “delivery” that is the problem with our lagging standardized test scores? Given that our only experience with IB is at Dundee and Dundee test scores are not higher overall than those of other elementary schools on that side of town, can we really expect big improvements from IB in our school system?
There are far more questions out there that need to be answered.
Comment by Sean — February 21st, 2011 @ 8:25 am
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